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[Music]

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and you're listening to paranormal now

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on the inception radio network I'm your

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host Alan B Smith and I welcome you to

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join us as we traverse the cosmic

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highway of paranormal pitstops and

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tantalizing turn-offs if you're a

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regular listener to irn we have an iron

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to the live stream from home on the road

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or from that greasy diner somewhere off

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a dusty road as you all know this is a

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podcast broadcast weekly on Saturday

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nights 11:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time

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but for those of you who listen to the

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inception radio network frequently there

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are so many other ways for you to listen

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radio stream of shoutcast one app one

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Media Player QuickTime and irn roku

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channel and of course if you're at home

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and your internet goes down you can

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always call in at four oh one two eight

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three six seven zero zero and listen to

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the live 24-hour stream on the

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conceptional radio network welcome back

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everybody and has been a while that

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brief hiatus from the airwaves and i

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thank you for tuning in once again we

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have a very interesting topic tonight

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I'm very excited this is actually a

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topic that I've been wanting to dive

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into more so as of late and we've sort

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of just been brushing up the edge of it

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you know on other shows and now we get a

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chance to really dive in deep with

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author Joseph Selby and he's the author

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of the physics of God unifying quantum

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physics consciousness m-theory

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Heaven neuroscience and transcendence a

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little bit about the book itself

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compelling and concise the physics of

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God will make you believe in the unity

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of science and religion and eager to

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experience the personal transcendence

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that is the promise of both the physics

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of God is reader-friendly combining

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humor and well-chosen analogies to make

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complex subjects both scientific and

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spiritual easy to understand there's no

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math and there's no table unlike many

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books in this genre that compare only a

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few concepts of religion with a few

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facts of science facets of science

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the physics of God is complete this

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short book concisely connects all the

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dots between science and the timeless

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concerns of religion miracles heaven

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immortality consciousness transcendence

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and God and a little bit about the

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author Joseph Selby Joseph makes the

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complex and obscure simple and clear he

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is a dedicated meditator for over 40

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years he has taught yoga and meditation

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throughout the US and Europe he has also

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been an avid follower of the unfolding

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new paradigm of science with the

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groaning bookshelves to show for it

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and he is known for creating bridges of

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understanding between the modern

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evidenced-based discoveries of science

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and the ancient experience based

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discoveries of the mystics Selby

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maintains several blogs including

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intersections which explores how

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spirituality connects with culture and

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science

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he has also authored the UGA's a factual

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look at India's tradition of cyclical

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history and a sci-fi fantasy series the

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protectors Diaries inspired by the

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abilities of mystics Selby is a founder

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member of Anandi a meditation based

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community and spiritual movement

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inspired by power months

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Yogananda he lives with his wife Ananda

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village near in Nevada City California

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welcome to the show Joseph thanks for

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having me yeah absolutely thank you I'm

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really excited because I love walking

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that line between science and

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spirituality signs in the paranormal you

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know would be another way to phrase that

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and I think most people being spiritual

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and believers in science have if nothing

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else you know a passing curiosity but a

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curiosity nonetheless about what science

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could reveal about their religion or

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their spirituality so my hope is that

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maybe you can enlighten us a little bit

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obviously you know myself and and the

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many listeners you know that are into

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this program and other programs like it

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you know wewe are scouring the Internet

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we're waiting for the next article to

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get our attention

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about quantum physics and I think one of

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the one of the minds that had really set

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the momentum forward was the field and

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I'm sure you've read the field by lynne

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mctaggart and also you know the movies

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are slipping my name now down the rabbit

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hole

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I'm sure you'll know the documentary I'm

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speaking of anyway the point is the

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point is we are seeking and so what do

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you have to share with us that can help

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us feel a little bit more satisfied

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about this sort of bringing together of

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science and spirituality was really to

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show that there is no line between

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science and spirituality there is and

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can only be one reality there aren't

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multiple realities there are realities

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for the skeptics and realities for the

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ultra-religious there's just one reality

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so I went forward with the conviction

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based on my own experience and lots of

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readings of those books that are making

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my bookshelves grown to really establish

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that not science already supports

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spirituality it already supports

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religion it already supports the

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paranormal why it doesn't appear as if

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that's the case is because within the

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world of science and remember science is

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just a method of making discoveries it's

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a very methodical it's a very brilliant

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process but it's just a process and out

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of that comes discoveries and then

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people like you and I to take those

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discoveries and they put them together

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into

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more complex sets of theories and they

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come up with an opinion about how the

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world works how the universe works how

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the cosmos works but it's really an

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opinion a collection of discoveries that

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they have latched on to so you think

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this is a problem of perception or well

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there's a very strong group of voices

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that are scientists who are believers in

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what's known as scientific materialism

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and it's a belief system they've taken

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the discoveries that they want to take

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from science and they put them all

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together and they say based on this all

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of the claims of religion and the

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paranormal can't be true

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because what we believe all those

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discoveries are telling us is that

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everything that is everything it ever

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will be is the result of interactions

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between matter and energy and absolutely

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nothing else but it's a belief system

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because they still based on that

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assumption have not shown us how life

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could have originated they haven't shown

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us how consciousness could have

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originated they haven't answered some of

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their own fundamental questions such as

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the observer paradox then it's a heart

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at the heart of quantum physics they

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sort of when pressed scientific

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materialists will say well we're getting

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closer to solving that we have some

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great ideas about how life could have

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originated perhaps when amino acids came

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in contact with a crystal and the

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inherent lettis organization of the

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crystal caused the amino acids to line

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up in its own crystal and that forms

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some of the building block molecules of

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life and then it went from there

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well it's it's a great theory but

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they've not found anything to support it

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so we have this very strong voice of

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scientific materialism not only among

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scientists but throughout the world that

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is at its best a collection of good

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solid facts but at its fringes at its

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margins is really a belief system that

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the unanswered questions will eventually

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be answered

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proving scientific materialism to be

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true but you know until they are it's

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just a belief it's just a theory

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well done right when again go ahead no

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they had good I was just gonna say right

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within science there are discoveries

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that have been made that confound

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scientific materialism I mentioned one

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the the intelligent observer paradox

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it's like this gaping hole in the middle

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of science unexplained gaping hole and

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little science it's like a paranormal

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hole in the middle of seconds exactly

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exactly and yeah it's been kind of

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papered over in a sense with quantum

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mechanics so quantum mechanics was the

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resulting solution within basically the

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emerging world of quantum physics to

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come to some specific outcomes given

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that what quantum physics had already

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discovered is that matter can behave as

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a wave or it can behave as a particle

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that you can only know half of two

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opposing aspects of any particular atom

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or molecule you can know its momentum

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you can know its position but you can't

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know both at the same time that's

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Heisenberg's well-known uncertainty

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principle

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all of these things combined with the

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observer paradox which is really the

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most weird of all the quantum weirdness

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kept them from using classical

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mathematics to predict the outcome of

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interactions between molecules and atoms

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so they came up with quantum mechanics

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which combines classical mathematics

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with probability theory and the

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mathematics of probability theory and

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between the two of them they're able to

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predict the highest likelihood of

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something happening because they

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couldn't know things with certainty and

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that highest likelihood is extremely

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exact oddly enough even though quantum

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mechanics is a blend of probability

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theory with classical mathematics it's

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very very exact so they they just got to

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leap over quantum weirdness they got to

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say we don't really need to know why

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there is the uncertainty principle we

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really don't need to know why the

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intelligent observer paradox is true we

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have this math that lets us just jump

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over it so it's kind of like just

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putting it on the back burner and saying

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well it's not so relevant but it is very

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fundamental so I would think that it is

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very relevant but you know to you know

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to see things from their side I think it

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is kind of a fair argument to say well

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you know what we don't know that much

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about the the human mind and where the

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mind itself originates or we don't

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really understand the moat the complete

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structure of the universe down to its

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you know the tiniest particles and

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physics laws of physics but we just need

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more time

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which is anymore that's their argument

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don't you think that that's it's fit

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yeah I mean I think it's a fair argument

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to some degree because like many other

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Sciences you know the you know science

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is sort of malleable because like you

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said like you can learn one aspect of it

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and you're right you have this

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collection of facts and those facts

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makes sense but in a broader sense you

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start to realize oh there are other

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factors that we can bring into this and

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now we're better at treating this

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00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:02,330
disease or now we're better at you know

279
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:05,130
creating you know metamaterials or

280
00:14:08,530 --> 00:14:07,710
whatever it is you don't I mean yeah

281
00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:08,540
exactly

282
00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:12,120
and what the scientific materialists I

283
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:13,620
don't want to say science I want to be

284
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:16,260
very careful people who have adopted

285
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:18,570
scientific materialism is their point of

286
00:14:26,420 --> 00:14:22,260
view are pretty much forced to just kind

287
00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:26,430
of up to the margins any discoveries

288
00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:30,300
that don't fit scientific materialism

289
00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:33,030
and so they were the ones who came up

290
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:36,540
with the term paranormal so that they

291
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:41,040
could easily and and convincingly just

292
00:14:47,390 --> 00:14:42,690
kind of keep throwing things in that

293
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:47,400
basket of paranormal with the kind of

294
00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:48,240
you know

295
00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:52,280
wink-wink nudge-nudge that anybody who

296
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:54,510
addresses these kind of things or who

297
00:14:58,910 --> 00:14:56,610
interested in these kind of things must

298
00:15:05,650 --> 00:14:58,920
be a little off so they've they've

299
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:05,660
managed to characterize a whole slate of

300
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:07,650
non-conforming discoveries non

301
00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:10,530
conforming to scientific materialism by

302
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:12,960
just shoving them to the side and kind

303
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:14,310
of illegitimate um

304
00:15:19,850 --> 00:15:16,320
but they're not going away there's more

305
00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:19,860
and more and more evidence all the time

306
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,300
for things like mental telepathy for

307
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:25,680
telepaths

308
00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:30,360
for the ability of the mind to affect

309
00:15:39,470 --> 00:15:34,500
the body there's very solidly collected

310
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:39,480
evidence that shows people who have for

311
00:15:46,359 --> 00:15:42,959
example this is one of my favorite

312
00:15:50,509 --> 00:15:46,369
it's evidence people who suffer from

313
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:50,519
multiple personality disorder who have

314
00:15:56,059 --> 00:15:54,240
numerous personalities who you know come

315
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:56,069
forward and then recede and another

316
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,240
personality comes forward fascinating

317
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:02,399
research has been done into the

318
00:16:08,419 --> 00:16:05,730
thousands of cases in clinical

319
00:16:10,609 --> 00:16:08,429
situations with scientific measuring

320
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:10,619
measuring devices available to the

321
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:14,399
researchers and they found not only do

322
00:16:23,769 --> 00:16:19,230
people have different personalities but

323
00:16:30,489 --> 00:16:23,779
each personality brings with it

324
00:16:34,249 --> 00:16:30,499
instantaneous physiological changes so

325
00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:34,259
one personality would be allergic to

326
00:16:42,769 --> 00:16:38,910
bees perhaps get stung another

327
00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:42,779
personality comes in and that reaction

328
00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:48,059
goes away immediately some some

329
00:16:57,619 --> 00:16:53,100
personalities have moles and scars that

330
00:17:00,889 --> 00:16:57,629
other personalities don't have okay some

331
00:17:04,399 --> 00:17:00,899
personalities there's one for woman it's

332
00:17:07,159 --> 00:17:04,409
not a it's not a enviable condition to

333
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:07,169
be in multiple personalities usually the

334
00:17:17,029 --> 00:17:11,130
result of some extreme trauma but one

335
00:17:21,380 --> 00:17:17,039
poor woman had over ten personalities

336
00:17:24,529 --> 00:17:21,390
and she carried ten different pairs of

337
00:17:28,159 --> 00:17:24,539
glasses in her purse

338
00:17:30,740 --> 00:17:28,169
because each personality has a different

339
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:30,750
need different prescription for them to

340
00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:34,080
be able to see and it's not affected if

341
00:17:37,610 --> 00:17:35,820
you measure them

342
00:17:41,419 --> 00:17:37,620
there was another personality that went

343
00:17:44,299 --> 00:17:41,429
through ten changes within an hour and

344
00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:44,309
an ophthalmologist measured each

345
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:47,220
personality across things like visual

346
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:51,080
acuity tension within the eyeball

347
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:52,890
curvature of the eyeball

348
00:18:00,110 --> 00:17:57,390
all color of the iris and all 10

349
00:18:05,150 --> 00:18:00,120
personalities had distinctly different

350
00:18:08,030 --> 00:18:05,160
sets of readings when you said color of

351
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:08,040
the color of the iris one of them has a

352
00:18:14,930 --> 00:18:11,310
different color iris from the Oh hat how

353
00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:14,940
does that happen well that is the $64

354
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:17,990
question it doesn't get answered by

355
00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:22,170
scientific materialism well maybe maybe

356
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:27,150
it could if if well I see what you're

357
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:29,490
saying but I'm wondering if you know our

358
00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:32,960
our minds are the impetus for our

359
00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:36,390
evolution you know I was just reading

360
00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:38,760
this this article and I'll just you know

361
00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:41,670
quote you really quick here from it when

362
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,380
we talk about human evolution we usually

363
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,360
talk about how we evolved into humans

364
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,520
how we lost body here gained brain mass

365
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:49,200
started to walk on two feet and short

366
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:50,730
things that happen millions of years ago

367
00:18:55,790 --> 00:18:52,770
but evolution did not stop when the

368
00:18:57,290 --> 00:18:55,800
first humans emerged a new study of two

369
00:18:58,820 --> 00:18:57,300
massive genetic databases one in the

370
00:19:00,920 --> 00:18:58,830
United Kingdom and one in California

371
00:19:03,020 --> 00:19:00,930
suggests genetic mutations that

372
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:03,030
shortened lifespans have been weeded out

373
00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:04,770
since and are possibly still in the

374
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:07,080
process of being weeded out today and I

375
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:09,450
and I wonder like you said there they're

376
00:19:17,180 --> 00:19:12,330
looking for the genetic coding for this

377
00:19:20,690 --> 00:19:17,190
but maybe maybe it is our minds that are

378
00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:20,700
you know hand hand in hand with our

379
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:22,950
bodies as part of the evolution itself

380
00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:24,810
that our minds are pushing because if

381
00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:28,740
our if our minds can create a reaction

382
00:19:36,110 --> 00:19:31,980
or a non reaction to a bee sting or some

383
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:36,120
sort of outside stimuli then our minds

384
00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:39,330
may also be able to force our bodies to

385
00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:43,230
adapt and I agree with you I think it's

386
00:19:52,030 --> 00:19:47,070
it's true but it begs the question how

387
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:52,040
does our mind to do that so every

388
00:20:01,010 --> 00:19:57,170
biochemical model for how the body works

389
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:01,020
require some time for those effects to

390
00:20:06,540 --> 00:20:04,890
cascade through the body there are ample

391
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:06,550
there's ample evidence

392
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:10,610
that the placebo effect starts with the

393
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:14,080
mind but then through the mind releasing

394
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:16,640
neuropeptides or affecting the endocrine

395
00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:20,330
system or another cascade of effects the

396
00:20:27,220 --> 00:20:23,140
body gradually changes to the

397
00:20:30,130 --> 00:20:27,230
expectation of the mind so you you can

398
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:30,140
argue if you just look at the placebo

399
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:34,880
effect that the mind is the trigger for

400
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:38,630
biochemical effects but when it happens

401
00:20:47,050 --> 00:20:42,650
instantaneously as it does with the

402
00:20:50,290 --> 00:20:47,060
multiple personality sufferers and some

403
00:20:55,810 --> 00:20:50,300
of the effects indicate the presence of

404
00:20:59,890 --> 00:20:55,820
different DNA such as eye color there's

405
00:21:03,190 --> 00:20:59,900
really no explanation for the mind body

406
00:21:06,490 --> 00:21:03,200
response that is the you know currently

407
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:06,500
understood that can explain that it's in

408
00:21:11,170 --> 00:21:08,960
science in scientific materialism I

409
00:21:16,450 --> 00:21:11,180
understand correct correct

410
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:16,460
now I think that what this indicates is

411
00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:18,590
or where you were going is that our

412
00:21:26,530 --> 00:21:23,380
minds are tremendously powerful

413
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:26,540
instruments and they were still coming

414
00:21:31,780 --> 00:21:28,910
to understand them and one of the things

415
00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:31,790
I should toss in here at this point one

416
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:34,670
of the things that I do in my book is I

417
00:21:41,980 --> 00:21:39,770
give equal credibility to how the saints

418
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:41,990
and sages the the mystics and the

419
00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:46,270
masters of the world describe their

420
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:50,740
experiences to blend them with how

421
00:22:00,640 --> 00:21:55,910
scientific discoveries indicate how our

422
00:22:04,150 --> 00:22:00,650
reality is shaped and so I'm not I'm not

423
00:22:07,870 --> 00:22:04,160
able to tell you that science supports

424
00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:07,880
every last detail of the paranormal to

425
00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:11,300
the extent that science normally expects

426
00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:15,070
to do things but I can tell you that

427
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:18,680
there is a deep congruence between the

428
00:22:25,330 --> 00:22:22,310
whay reality is described by those who

429
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:25,340
have had transcendent experiences and

430
00:22:31,810 --> 00:22:29,530
the way reality is described by some

431
00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:31,820
scientists not all scientists because

432
00:22:36,490 --> 00:22:33,320
many scientists are scientific

433
00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:36,500
materialists but not all 51% of

434
00:22:41,230 --> 00:22:39,320
scientists are not scientific

435
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:41,240
materialists they believe in God believe

436
00:22:44,350 --> 00:22:43,370
the higher power wait I'm sorry well the

437
00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:44,360
higher consciousness

438
00:22:49,660 --> 00:22:47,870
what percentage was that 51% that's

439
00:22:52,770 --> 00:22:49,670
pretty big - yeah that's pretty big

440
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:52,780
that's according to a Pew study done in

441
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:55,370
2009 but you know it's very interesting

442
00:23:00,550 --> 00:22:58,040
because the you know some of the more

443
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:00,560
prominent outspoken scientists but but

444
00:23:07,810 --> 00:23:04,490
have you believed otherwise it's a vocal

445
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:07,820
minority and it's also a vocal minority

446
00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:14,650
that controls most of the journals that

447
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:19,670
our articles are submitted to and it's

448
00:23:27,550 --> 00:23:22,790
very very difficult to get any article

449
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:27,560
any study published in one of the most

450
00:23:34,150 --> 00:23:31,130
prestigious journals that doesn't follow

451
00:23:36,430 --> 00:23:34,160
the exact script of scientific

452
00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:36,440
materialism but they really have a lock

453
00:23:45,330 --> 00:23:42,260
on that aspect of scientific materialism

454
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:45,340
of what most people think is science

455
00:23:56,110 --> 00:23:52,960
where in fact they are a minority yeah I

456
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:56,120
know I know that I've heard you know I

457
00:23:59,710 --> 00:23:57,770
won't drop any names here but you know

458
00:24:02,410 --> 00:23:59,720
it's some scientists that we see on TV

459
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:02,420
often I've heard that they have referred

460
00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:04,970
to other scientists being religious but

461
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:07,670
they do make it sound like you know the

462
00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:12,010
majority of scientists are or not and

463
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:14,270
you know they haven't made that claim

464
00:24:23,170 --> 00:24:17,330
but you know in their wording they do

465
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:23,180
and that that worries me because for

466
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:27,890
those who are more religious in in their

467
00:24:31,789 --> 00:24:30,410
dogma than scientific you can can

468
00:24:39,409 --> 00:24:31,799
perceive that

469
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:39,419
to their belief system and and I'm glad

470
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:41,010
people should be if they're an atheist

471
00:24:46,639 --> 00:24:44,130
be loud and proud about it you know I

472
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:46,649
always joke around but I you know I call

473
00:24:49,850 --> 00:24:48,000
myself a part-time atheist that's

474
00:24:53,899 --> 00:24:49,860
because I swing back back and forth in

475
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:53,909
my mind you know but but if you really I

476
00:25:01,340 --> 00:24:56,730
feel like if you want to bridge that gap

477
00:25:02,570 --> 00:25:01,350
the way you communicate is paramount and

478
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:02,580
I feel like sometimes I'm drunk and

479
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:05,039
they're dropping the ball on that but I

480
00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:07,289
think many you know the scientists that

481
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:11,460
you see Neil deGrasse Tyson is

482
00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:14,130
everywhere Tron is probably a good

483
00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:16,950
example he's very personable he's very

484
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:21,000
knowledgeable clearly a scientist to his

485
00:25:29,899 --> 00:25:25,860
core but I don't think he would have

486
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:29,909
made it to the prominence that he has if

487
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:33,450
he didn't believe in scientific

488
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:38,580
materialism and that again those

489
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:40,890
scientists who don't believe in

490
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:44,250
scientific materialism like Penrose is a

491
00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:45,120
good example

492
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:47,940
he gets marginalized Scott he's

493
00:25:53,870 --> 00:25:51,450
brilliant scientist he's got very cogent

494
00:25:55,940 --> 00:25:53,880
arguments for the various things he's

495
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:55,950
presented but he gets pushed to the

496
00:26:02,930 --> 00:25:58,799
margin because he doesn't hew the line

497
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:02,940
so we go ahead what I think that

498
00:26:07,549 --> 00:26:04,890
actually comes from a place of fear

499
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:07,559
because I think that they're afraid that

500
00:26:11,630 --> 00:26:09,330
if they allowed that voice to be

501
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,640
stronger that we're going to be become a

502
00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:14,640
retro Society and you know start to

503
00:26:18,289 --> 00:26:17,190
throw science aside and I think part of

504
00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:18,299
that is because you know this whole

505
00:26:23,409 --> 00:26:20,340
debate of or not so much of a debate

506
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:23,419
really but the debate of climate change

507
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:25,289
and then there's the climate change

508
00:26:29,690 --> 00:26:27,090
deniers that the humans have anything to

509
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:29,700
do with it you know so people have can

510
00:26:33,230 --> 00:26:31,500
take different sides of that story but I

511
00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:33,240
think scientists see that and they go my

512
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:33,630
goodness

513
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:35,730
you know this is really scary that

514
00:26:42,220 --> 00:26:38,570
people aren't you know don't trust that

515
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:42,230
99% or 98% whatever it is of scientists

516
00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:45,450
you know may be right and so I think

517
00:26:48,590 --> 00:26:46,020
there are

518
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:48,600
there's gonna be this sort of rollback

519
00:26:59,660 --> 00:26:53,610
of you know religious dogma

520
00:27:01,160 --> 00:26:59,670
you know superseding rationality which

521
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:01,170
can be extremely dangerous to any

522
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:03,000
society so I can understand if that's

523
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:04,710
that's the fear that place that they're

524
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:07,410
coming from right and they have a view

525
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:13,140
of people who embrace religions or the

526
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:18,870
paranormal as being not strong-minded

527
00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:22,410
enough to have really understood that

528
00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:25,340
what they're believing and why it's

529
00:27:31,310 --> 00:27:29,040
fundamentally in error but I've also

530
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,320
found well I did everything you say it's

531
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:33,360
true I mean I do think it's I think it's

532
00:27:37,790 --> 00:27:34,559
funnily fear-driven

533
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:37,800
we saw that in particular about I'd

534
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:41,760
guess about ten years ago when there was

535
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:47,640
a a real push to question some of the

536
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:49,770
theory of evolution and the mechanisms

537
00:27:59,030 --> 00:27:52,980
of evolution and there was a tremendous

538
00:28:02,810 --> 00:27:59,040
outpouring of you know strong thoughts

539
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:02,820
to the point of anger that people didn't

540
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:06,290
recognize evolution as absolutely true

541
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:09,090
so I think you're right I mean they're

542
00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:11,130
they're defending they're defending

543
00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:13,500
their faith with the same kind of ardor

544
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:18,840
that religion can get defended okay well

545
00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:20,460
you know let's just I'm sorry hold that

546
00:28:25,070 --> 00:28:21,660
thought right there we'll come back

547
00:28:27,770 --> 00:28:25,080
after this quick break I'm speaking with

548
00:28:30,380 --> 00:28:27,780
Joseph Selby author of the physics of

549
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:30,390
God on the inception radio network this

550
00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:32,400
is Alan B Smith for paranormal now we

551
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:35,030
will be right back

552
00:28:41,890 --> 00:28:39,520
[Music]

553
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:41,900
come back to Maranoa now I'm your host

554
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:44,120
Alan be smooth on the inception radio

555
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:46,970
network and tonight suggested Joseph

556
00:28:52,930 --> 00:28:50,570
Selby the author of physics of God

557
00:28:55,870 --> 00:28:52,940
taking us out the break was maiya Copa

558
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:55,880
by enigma I just can't get enough enigma

559
00:29:00,790 --> 00:28:58,250
the decades go by and I still listen to

560
00:29:05,710 --> 00:29:00,800
me but there's a pretty fan of in

561
00:29:07,420 --> 00:29:05,720
England I can't say what you are gonna

562
00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:07,430
going to tell a story or make a point

563
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:11,270
before we went to break oh I think I was

564
00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:16,910
just trying to say that while reputable

565
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:21,220
scientists are understandably concerned

566
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:29,120
about attacks on science they their fear

567
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:31,310
is based as you say that that science

568
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:34,610
will be thrown out somehow if any if any

569
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:37,070
part of their structure of scientific

570
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:39,530
discovery that that into their minds

571
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:42,710
proves scientific materialism but if any

572
00:29:47,260 --> 00:29:44,750
part of it falls then the whole thing

573
00:29:50,140 --> 00:29:47,270
will come to bits and everyone will have

574
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:50,150
their own opinion about what's true etc

575
00:29:58,510 --> 00:29:52,910
and when they talk about religion they

576
00:30:00,520 --> 00:29:58,520
tend to see religion as this archaic set

577
00:30:02,290 --> 00:30:00,530
of superstitions that never had any

578
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:02,300
underlying truth to it all along and

579
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:07,750
that it was the source of

580
00:30:16,570 --> 00:30:11,750
miscommunication of strife that led to

581
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:16,580
Wars and horrors so they as you said

582
00:30:21,550 --> 00:30:18,410
that you know they see if they don't

583
00:30:25,540 --> 00:30:21,560
stand strong that mankind is gonna slip

584
00:30:28,090 --> 00:30:25,550
back into this Middle Ages kind of

585
00:30:31,780 --> 00:30:28,100
mentality they see they see it as a

586
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:31,790
noble cause sort of course I think I

587
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:33,890
think they're all very noble I of great

588
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:37,370
respect for scientists of all stripes I

589
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:39,500
think that they have very disciplined

590
00:30:46,390 --> 00:30:43,010
minds they're very clever they just

591
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:46,400
tease out little bits of discovery by

592
00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:48,710
just thinking okay if I

593
00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:52,340
can test this tiny thing that I can make

594
00:30:57,250 --> 00:30:55,280
I can move us forward an inch and they

595
00:30:59,800 --> 00:30:57,260
take months to figure out how to test

596
00:31:02,020 --> 00:30:59,810
that one tiny thing and they come up

597
00:31:04,350 --> 00:31:02,030
with whole new devices and ways of doing

598
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:04,360
things I just I think it's fascinating

599
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:12,710
but a lot of their concerns about you

600
00:31:19,330 --> 00:31:15,440
know the crazies on the paranormal left

601
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:19,340
taking over science or slipping back

602
00:31:28,150 --> 00:31:24,440
into a mindless religion I think are not

603
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:28,160
real and I think that a lot of what I

604
00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:31,610
noticed with particularly the debunkers

605
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:35,870
like Dawkins and stinger who who believe

606
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:40,190
the best defense is a good offense who

607
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:43,130
attack really didn't they attack it

608
00:31:49,660 --> 00:31:47,690
really amateurishly and basically

609
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:49,670
because they don't understand religion

610
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:52,730
they don't they pick the the surface

611
00:32:00,510 --> 00:31:56,000
they picked the rituals they pick the

612
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:00,520
teaching stories like Noah's Ark and

613
00:32:07,630 --> 00:32:04,390
they say well obviously Noah's Ark is

614
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:07,640
impossible because you could never get

615
00:32:15,970 --> 00:32:12,320
two of every species onto a single ship

616
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:15,980
or what about bacteria that don't have

617
00:32:21,090 --> 00:32:18,050
male and female how do you get them you

618
00:32:25,510 --> 00:32:21,100
know they they apply a very rational

619
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:25,520
argument for many of the teaching

620
00:32:29,890 --> 00:32:27,170
stories of religion and they say

621
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:29,900
therefore there can't be anything to

622
00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:33,440
this and what they miss because they

623
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:37,030
don't study it I mean I've studied

624
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:41,230
science far more than most of these

625
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:45,530
debunkers have ever studied religion but

626
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:47,090
because they don't study it they put

627
00:32:53,530 --> 00:32:50,450
together these straw man arguments so I

628
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:53,540
heard Neil deGrasse Tyson whom I enjoyed

629
00:32:59,860 --> 00:32:57,170
by the way and and I watch a lot of the

630
00:33:01,299 --> 00:32:59,870
programs that he produces but he was

631
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:01,309
asked in a

632
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:04,610
Q&A session on a program whether he

633
00:33:12,850 --> 00:33:08,990
believed in God and he said well I've

634
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:12,860
given it a lot of thought and I believe

635
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:16,970
that if God existed and that God had

636
00:33:25,629 --> 00:33:20,690
created all of the cosmos

637
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:25,639
that there would be no strife there

638
00:33:31,019 --> 00:33:27,950
would be no suffering there would be no

639
00:33:34,139 --> 00:33:31,029
inequality there would be no disease and

640
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:34,149
because all of those things exist

641
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:39,289
obviously God doesn't exist so it's it

642
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:44,240
sounds really good but if you have much

643
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:46,490
of a grasp of religion you will just you

644
00:33:53,169 --> 00:33:48,830
will see that there's not a single

645
00:33:57,730 --> 00:33:53,179
religion that claims what he's saying is

646
00:34:00,369 --> 00:33:57,740
true that there there's no religion that

647
00:34:04,989 --> 00:34:00,379
says God intended to make the world

648
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:04,999
perfect that there are reasons why the

649
00:34:10,210 --> 00:34:06,159
world we live in

650
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:10,220
even as created by God have all these

651
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:13,359
elements of strife and disease and

652
00:34:21,339 --> 00:34:18,770
inequality but because he said it so you

653
00:34:23,710 --> 00:34:21,349
know with such a certainty it actually

654
00:34:25,809 --> 00:34:23,720
made me laugh because I thought okay

655
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:25,819
here's a man who doesn't believe in God

656
00:34:38,139 --> 00:34:29,810
but he's really sure what God would do

657
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:38,149
if God existed right easy to topple over

658
00:34:44,919 --> 00:34:43,369
easy to win straw me an argument well I

659
00:34:47,579 --> 00:34:44,929
mean religions have been saying that for

660
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:47,589
the longest time you know that that um

661
00:34:58,089 --> 00:34:52,720
we don't we can't understand the

662
00:35:01,120 --> 00:34:58,099
omnipresent mind of God which you know

663
00:35:04,140 --> 00:35:01,130
to some extent could sound just just

664
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:04,150
like an excuse for we don't understand

665
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:15,140
for and where I really go with the book

666
00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:20,000
is that I don't rely on the testimony of

667
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:24,390
the theologians who make or tend to be

668
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:26,130
the ones who come up with these phrases

669
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:32,490
like mysterious are the ways of God I go

670
00:35:38,990 --> 00:35:34,609
to the people who have actually had

671
00:35:41,690 --> 00:35:39,000
direct transcendent experience which I

672
00:35:47,799 --> 00:35:41,700
refer to as the saints and sages these

673
00:35:51,730 --> 00:35:47,809
are the the the masters who have had an

674
00:35:58,549 --> 00:35:51,740
experience that is so profound and so

675
00:36:01,280 --> 00:35:58,559
deep of a reality that underpins the the

676
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:01,290
the subtle reality that underpins all of

677
00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:04,380
what we see through our senses and if

678
00:36:12,829 --> 00:36:09,020
you study enough of them if you read the

679
00:36:16,099 --> 00:36:12,839
life stories and read the teachings of

680
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:16,109
these saints and sages from as far back

681
00:36:23,539 --> 00:36:18,780
as you want to go you'll find that there

682
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:23,549
is very soon a compelling consistency to

683
00:36:34,059 --> 00:36:31,040
how they describe God and it's not the

684
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:34,069
theological dogma of any one religion

685
00:36:41,059 --> 00:36:36,960
you can you can begin to appreciate how

686
00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:41,069
the the dogmas of many religions formed

687
00:36:48,319 --> 00:36:45,180
out of sort of a ignorant interpretation

688
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:48,329
of what the original saints and sages

689
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:54,170
said but what they actually say is that

690
00:37:02,359 --> 00:36:58,410
there is an infinite consciousness that

691
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:02,369
is intelligent that is knowing and that

692
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:05,760
we as individuals are part of that

693
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:08,760
infinite consciousness but we don't yet

694
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:15,359
know it and that we have all the powers

695
00:37:22,660 --> 00:37:20,400
of the divine within each one of us but

696
00:37:26,290 --> 00:37:22,670
we don't know how to use them

697
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:26,300
we see them being used in situations

698
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:29,210
like I described with the multiple

699
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:32,510
personality sufferers where they use

700
00:37:38,890 --> 00:37:37,040
their god-given but unseen powers to

701
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:38,900
transform their bodies instantaneously

702
00:37:44,650 --> 00:37:40,690
they just don't know they're doing it

703
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:44,660
we're using those powers all the time

704
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:46,970
this is what the saints and sages tell

705
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:50,330
us they just saying you are that the

706
00:37:59,620 --> 00:37:54,380
kingdom of heaven is within you are that

707
00:38:03,850 --> 00:37:59,630
is what the Hindus say that it's there

708
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:03,860
and it's constantly functioning we're

709
00:38:10,090 --> 00:38:05,930
just not aware of it we're constantly

710
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:10,100
creating the bodies we have we're

711
00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:12,890
continuously creating the reality around

712
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:16,550
us with this infinite intelligent

713
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:18,410
consciousness of which we are a part

714
00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:22,250
we're just unaware of it we tend to only

715
00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:26,150
be aware of this outer manifestation of

716
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:29,780
a chain of manifestations that is our

717
00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:33,370
physical body if you stick with that

718
00:38:42,220 --> 00:38:39,260
testimony if you don't try to reconcile

719
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:42,230
all the different dogmas of all the

720
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:45,230
different religions around the world but

721
00:38:50,830 --> 00:38:48,290
if you just knit together the testimony

722
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:50,840
of the saints and sages those mystics

723
00:38:59,320 --> 00:38:53,870
and masters who realize these things for

724
00:39:01,360 --> 00:38:59,330
themselves what they describe is easily

725
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:01,370
supported by science

726
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:04,520
there's no stretch they describe a

727
00:39:10,270 --> 00:39:08,330
cosmos much like string theory describes

728
00:39:14,350 --> 00:39:10,280
it or aspects of quantum physics

729
00:39:17,590 --> 00:39:14,360
describes it or quantum physicists like

730
00:39:22,090 --> 00:39:17,600
David Bohm described it and if they read

731
00:39:26,290 --> 00:39:22,100
the quotations of the really high-minded

732
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:26,300
scientists like Einstein like Heisenberg

733
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:30,710
like Bohr like bomb like hundreds of

734
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:35,119
others the way they

735
00:39:41,559 --> 00:39:38,490
describe reality through the lens of

736
00:39:46,750 --> 00:39:41,569
what they have learned is it's very

737
00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:46,760
subtle Heisenberg came up with the term

738
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:50,430
potential with a capital P to describe

739
00:39:59,660 --> 00:39:54,720
this underlying realm of reality out of

740
00:40:03,940 --> 00:39:59,670
which reality comes into existence when

741
00:40:09,020 --> 00:40:06,079
particularly the quantum physicists

742
00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:09,030
become they become de facto mystics when

743
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:10,859
they talk about what's really happening

744
00:40:18,799 --> 00:40:14,250
right say now I mean I would lean more

745
00:40:21,950 --> 00:40:18,809
towards these descriptions you know but

746
00:40:24,410 --> 00:40:21,960
you know I was raised Catholic and you

747
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:24,420
know it was made to sound and and you

748
00:40:31,490 --> 00:40:29,490
know Catholic saints and mystics of you

749
00:40:33,049 --> 00:40:31,500
know days gone by you know spoke a

750
00:40:34,510 --> 00:40:33,059
little bit differently than God but you

751
00:40:40,609 --> 00:40:34,520
know the way we were raised was sort of

752
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:40,619
God was of a singular mind that made

753
00:40:46,849 --> 00:40:43,200
choices and decisions that affected our

754
00:40:48,740 --> 00:40:46,859
lives directly you know but but I and

755
00:40:54,289 --> 00:40:48,750
that that was always difficult for me to

756
00:40:57,020 --> 00:40:54,299
reconcile because you know a parent many

757
00:40:59,839 --> 00:40:57,030
parents do know how to raise a child

758
00:41:03,890 --> 00:40:59,849
without having to beat them and raise

759
00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:03,900
them to be good people so you know this

760
00:41:09,799 --> 00:41:07,740
pain have to be part of the growing

761
00:41:12,740 --> 00:41:09,809
process to be a better person I mean if

762
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:12,750
you if you just created something by

763
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:15,450
choice would you have created something

764
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:19,140
where you knew people would have to feel

765
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:22,950
pain and suffer you know I think that's

766
00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:25,920
that's what makes it a challenge but if

767
00:41:31,099 --> 00:41:29,220
we lean more towards your if not if

768
00:41:34,780 --> 00:41:31,109
perhaps not yours but what you just

769
00:41:38,980 --> 00:41:34,790
described as being a intelligent sort of

770
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:38,990
you know omnipresent mind that is just

771
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:42,530
the substrate or a part of the universe

772
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:45,569
then that I can I can accept more and

773
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:48,090
that that is what I tend to lean too

774
00:41:51,740 --> 00:41:49,520
it's more in my own personal beliefs

775
00:41:56,090 --> 00:41:51,750
because then because then it says to me

776
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:56,100
that that mind is is is also evolving

777
00:42:03,050 --> 00:41:59,010
with us in a sense so if that makes

778
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:03,060
sense to you mmm no a lot of what you're

779
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:06,450
saying is I think the fundamentals of

780
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:09,510
what you could call you know the

781
00:42:17,930 --> 00:42:11,970
perennial philosophy the universal

782
00:42:20,540 --> 00:42:17,940
religion the eternal religion that you

783
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,550
begin to pick up on when you you know

784
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:22,800
read extensively the lives of people

785
00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:29,760
from Teresa of Avila to the Indian

786
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:32,760
mystics that you begin to CEO they're

787
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:35,970
using a different language in a

788
00:42:43,450 --> 00:42:37,290
different time that has a different

789
00:42:46,660 --> 00:42:43,460
culture but their experience is the same

790
00:42:50,030 --> 00:42:46,670
and what they say an answer to that

791
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:50,040
fundamental question you just asked of

792
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:53,010
you know why did God create the universe

793
00:43:01,490 --> 00:42:56,880
as he did if there's going to be pain

794
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:01,500
and suffering in it is that each one of

795
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:07,530
us is self willed and that each one of

796
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:11,730
us can make decisions and experience

797
00:43:19,550 --> 00:43:17,250
consequences now most religions don't

798
00:43:20,780 --> 00:43:19,560
believe in reincarnation or some

799
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:20,790
religions don't believe in reincarnation

800
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:23,640
I should say actually they're more there

801
00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:26,490
are more religions more people and more

802
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:27,780
religions that believe in reincarnation

803
00:43:33,530 --> 00:43:30,330
and not but still even the ones that

804
00:43:37,310 --> 00:43:33,540
don't you can find hints of them

805
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:37,320
referring to this law jesus said when

806
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:49,730
someone and a disciple was going to pick

807
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:53,010
up the sword and rise up through was it

808
00:43:58,580 --> 00:43:57,090
Peter I forget who it was but he but he

809
00:44:01,220 --> 00:43:58,590
basically said those who live by the

810
00:44:02,259 --> 00:44:01,230
sword die by the sword so how can that

811
00:44:05,450 --> 00:44:02,269
be

812
00:44:08,359 --> 00:44:05,460
yeah if you don't have more than one

813
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:08,369
lifetime for that to come true there's

814
00:44:17,329 --> 00:44:14,400
lots of hints that the incarnation after

815
00:44:20,660 --> 00:44:17,339
incarnation that we have were in school

816
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:20,670
we're learning and so the pain and

817
00:44:31,609 --> 00:44:26,089
suffering is of our own making and that

818
00:44:35,269 --> 00:44:31,619
coming back to higher awareness is not a

819
00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:35,279
process of undoing all our suffering

820
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:39,390
it's a process of stopping doing those

821
00:44:46,220 --> 00:44:43,740
things that make us suffer and to live

822
00:44:50,359 --> 00:44:46,230
more in harmony with that higher

823
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:50,369
consciousness that is God and in so

824
00:44:54,489 --> 00:44:52,410
doing we expand we become self-realized

825
00:44:59,859 --> 00:44:54,499
all the things that we think of as

826
00:45:03,349 --> 00:44:59,869
miracles or paranormal powers become

827
00:45:06,589 --> 00:45:03,359
normal for us because we've rediscovered

828
00:45:08,989 --> 00:45:06,599
we've made our way back we've learned

829
00:45:11,749 --> 00:45:08,999
all the lessons we need to learn to come

830
00:45:13,789 --> 00:45:11,759
back to that knowing well you know I

831
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:13,799
think that there's the we're always

832
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:15,839
making analogies and metaphors and

833
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:19,650
reference to computers in our brain and

834
00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:22,410
now you have quantum computers and you

835
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:23,400
know you can start making analogies

836
00:45:29,210 --> 00:45:26,190
between quantum physics and how that

837
00:45:32,509 --> 00:45:29,220
functions like a computer like very

838
00:45:36,259 --> 00:45:32,519
complex quantum computer the nature of

839
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:36,269
our reality you know so you know we have

840
00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:39,930
all these ways of thinking of how things

841
00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:45,720
function A+ this equals that and you

842
00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:48,150
know so it's it no matter how you go

843
00:45:55,309 --> 00:45:51,150
about it I think the only way from from

844
00:45:59,180 --> 00:45:55,319
my mind to accept that some sort of

845
00:46:04,120 --> 00:45:59,190
being created things as it were with all

846
00:46:07,940 --> 00:46:04,130
the suffering admit that my human mind

847
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:07,950
simply has not the imagination nor the

848
00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:11,910
ability to comprehend what the purpose

849
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:14,940
or intention of that is and again I feel

850
00:46:18,110 --> 00:46:15,510
like yes

851
00:46:19,340 --> 00:46:18,120
on the one hand it's a cop-out but on

852
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:19,350
the other hand it's the only other

853
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:21,930
explanation I can I can think of so when

854
00:46:28,130 --> 00:46:24,410
someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson says

855
00:46:30,740 --> 00:46:28,140
this is these are my reasons why it's

856
00:46:33,410 --> 00:46:30,750
like well but your your postulating a

857
00:46:38,090 --> 00:46:33,420
being that is supposed to be you know

858
00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:38,100
this super intelligent that that you

859
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:39,990
can't comprehend so if you can't

860
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:41,910
comprehend it then how can you postulate

861
00:46:48,590 --> 00:46:45,660
on it so again I feel like it's a it's

862
00:46:52,490 --> 00:46:48,600
something of a dead end and it like you

863
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:52,500
had like you had mentioned before you

864
00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:55,920
know living in accepting the mystery of

865
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:57,660
the mind of God or or something along

866
00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:00,480
those lines why I don't believe in a God

867
00:47:08,210 --> 00:47:03,630
in that sense I do believe that

868
00:47:12,140 --> 00:47:08,220
embracing the mystery is part of the joy

869
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:12,150
of living and I would agree I think the

870
00:47:19,130 --> 00:47:16,050
other distinction I would make that I

871
00:47:23,980 --> 00:47:19,140
think supports what you're saying is

872
00:47:28,930 --> 00:47:23,990
that it's not with our rational mind

873
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:28,940
that we can really convince ourselves of

874
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:34,290
the existence or purpose of God it's

875
00:47:39,830 --> 00:47:38,160
through experience and maybe that's what

876
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:39,840
you're alluding to with the with the

877
00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:44,310
mystery of God but I've meditated for

878
00:47:53,450 --> 00:47:49,140
over 40 years now and I have absolutely

879
00:47:57,530 --> 00:47:53,460
no doubt of the existence of God not

880
00:48:00,050 --> 00:47:57,540
because it has made me super smart or

881
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:00,060
because I now have all these great

882
00:48:07,070 --> 00:48:03,510
arguments that I've collected or even

883
00:48:09,820 --> 00:48:07,080
because I was convinced by all these

884
00:48:12,740 --> 00:48:09,830
books I've read by saints and sages I

885
00:48:18,460 --> 00:48:12,750
have no doubt that God exists because in

886
00:48:22,490 --> 00:48:18,470
meditation I can feel things that have

887
00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:22,500
expanded me have filled me with joy with

888
00:48:28,009 --> 00:48:25,860
love with bliss with peace had inspired

889
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:28,019
me

890
00:48:40,849 --> 00:48:36,930
own understanding that is incomparable

891
00:48:43,849 --> 00:48:40,859
to anything that I've ever achieved just

892
00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:43,859
by reasoning my way forward and this is

893
00:48:49,759 --> 00:48:45,660
what's true of all those saints and

894
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:49,769
sages is that they don't they don't have

895
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:52,890
when you when you read them they're not

896
00:49:00,769 --> 00:48:56,970
describing in rational theological

897
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:00,779
detail they're describing from the heart

898
00:49:10,190 --> 00:49:04,559
what their experience was and how they

899
00:49:12,410 --> 00:49:10,200
understood what God was trying to teach

900
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:12,420
them or what the infinite intelligence

901
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:14,730
or the infinite consciousness a lot of

902
00:49:21,789 --> 00:49:17,130
people get hung up with the word God but

903
00:49:28,579 --> 00:49:25,849
consciousness that is everywhere that

904
00:49:33,999 --> 00:49:28,589
inner cranek interpenetrates all of

905
00:49:37,519 --> 00:49:34,009
reality and is the causative force of

906
00:49:42,609 --> 00:49:37,529
all of creation call it whatever you

907
00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:42,619
like but these mystics and masters and

908
00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:48,049
near-death experiencers who go into

909
00:49:55,059 --> 00:49:52,529
heavenly experiences the main thing they

910
00:50:00,109 --> 00:49:55,069
describe is that it's just utterly

911
00:50:05,779 --> 00:50:00,119
wonderful I was moved to tears I read a

912
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:05,789
digest of story after story taken from

913
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:08,250
books and articles written by near-death

914
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:14,130
experiencers and they all just will say

915
00:50:19,999 --> 00:50:16,410
things like it's impossible to describe

916
00:50:24,130 --> 00:50:20,009
with words I was so moved it

917
00:50:29,269 --> 00:50:24,140
I can't convey it I felt like I was

918
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:29,279
expanding into an infinite reach that

919
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:31,609
was way beyond anything I had ever

920
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:34,710
experienced I was utterly taken up in

921
00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:37,890
love I felt like every atom was composed

922
00:50:43,260 --> 00:50:40,150
of joy I mean they just go

923
00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:43,270
on and on and the that's the real

924
00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:48,790
experience of God is that is that joy is

925
00:50:56,010 --> 00:50:51,940
that love is that bliss well you know

926
00:50:59,460 --> 00:50:56,020
it's an interesting thing because I've

927
00:51:05,430 --> 00:50:59,470
come you know to at this point in my

928
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:05,440
life I've come to find that I am most at

929
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:10,000
peace when I am feeling most grateful

930
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:17,440
and from an evolutionary standpoint it

931
00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:21,610
seems an odd way for the brain to be

932
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:22,710
satisfied

933
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:28,210
it seems that why would you what reason

934
00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:31,330
does the mind have to evolve or the body

935
00:51:36,810 --> 00:51:34,510
and brain evolved to the point where you

936
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:36,820
have to feel grateful that that's a

937
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:40,890
quintessential part of being happy

938
00:51:49,860 --> 00:51:45,370
because you know if we are just a super

939
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:49,870
smart biological species then we should

940
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:54,010
be happy when we have you know the all

941
00:51:59,300 --> 00:51:56,290
the essentials right but this but we

942
00:52:01,650 --> 00:51:59,310
don't need the sense of gratitude itself

943
00:52:03,420 --> 00:52:01,660
you know you just why could why don't we

944
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:03,430
just get up in the morning do our thing

945
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:05,770
do what we have to do and go to bed

946
00:52:09,390 --> 00:52:07,810
you know why is it when we have a new

947
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,400
discovery it's like oh this is so

948
00:52:14,250 --> 00:52:11,920
fantastic and you're grateful for it you

949
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:14,260
know sometimes you wake up and you think

950
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:16,690
wow I love this job if you're lucky to

951
00:52:21,630 --> 00:52:19,090
have a job like that you know and you're

952
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:21,640
grateful I feel like that's when you're

953
00:52:27,540 --> 00:52:24,240
not just getting like a jolt of

954
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:27,550
serotonin rush or what whatever hormone

955
00:52:35,010 --> 00:52:32,640
it's a much more grounded sense of joy

956
00:52:39,210 --> 00:52:35,020
at least this is what I found you know

957
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:39,220
as I'm getting older and I don't know it

958
00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:40,930
just seems an odd way that biology would

959
00:52:47,220 --> 00:52:43,240
program our brain to have that sort of

960
00:52:50,910 --> 00:52:47,230
reward through such an emotion right

961
00:52:52,140 --> 00:52:50,920
yeah the evolutionary theory as it

962
00:52:57,300 --> 00:52:52,150
stands

963
00:53:00,540 --> 00:52:57,310
really can't account for altruism except

964
00:53:06,090 --> 00:53:00,550
it's a very kind of indirect survival

965
00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:06,100
mechanism but people who are in serving

966
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:08,260
professions you know the nurses teachers

967
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:13,450
the doctors who well doctors make a lot

968
00:53:19,410 --> 00:53:15,370
of money but many people in the service

969
00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:19,420
professions don't firemen they feel a

970
00:53:27,930 --> 00:53:22,990
deep sense of satisfaction in helping

971
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:27,940
other people it's hard to justify

972
00:53:35,220 --> 00:53:31,090
through some evolutionary theory that

973
00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:35,230
that's hardwired into your being and

974
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:39,100
that you get a serotonin response when

975
00:53:46,650 --> 00:53:43,930
you're when you help someone but it's at

976
00:53:51,590 --> 00:53:46,660
the heart of the spiritual experience is

977
00:53:57,930 --> 00:53:51,600
that when you consider realities beyond

978
00:54:01,590 --> 00:53:57,940
your own small self you expand and when

979
00:54:04,890 --> 00:54:01,600
you expand you feel better the more you

980
00:54:08,730 --> 00:54:04,900
expand the better you feel the more you

981
00:54:12,210 --> 00:54:08,740
serve the better you feel the more you

982
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:12,220
take in the needs of others or the

983
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:15,490
opinions of others the better you feel

984
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:19,210
because you're you're moving away from

985
00:54:25,050 --> 00:54:21,670
this very very narrow identification

986
00:54:31,710 --> 00:54:25,060
that we tend to have with just our needs

987
00:54:34,590 --> 00:54:31,720
with our situation and that's just the

988
00:54:37,860 --> 00:54:34,600
that's just the glimmer of the expansion

989
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:37,870
of love of joy that you can feel in a

990
00:54:47,310 --> 00:54:41,200
sense meditation which I started talking

991
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:47,320
about is a scientific methodical way to

992
00:54:55,980 --> 00:54:51,690
expand beyond the boundaries of your

993
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:55,990
little mind and little body and when you

994
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:59,200
when you do that you also sort of come

995
00:55:05,370 --> 00:55:01,680
back to your experience with a natural

996
00:55:06,350 --> 00:55:05,380
desire to help others to serve others to

997
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:06,360
feel grateful

998
00:55:19,010 --> 00:55:13,680
to feel yourself benefited just by being

999
00:55:21,980 --> 00:55:19,020
and not by having or doing right and I

1000
00:55:23,450 --> 00:55:21,990
you know want to preface that before

1001
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:23,460
doing this interview I have not been

1002
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:25,170
able to read the book because this was

1003
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:28,290
sort of a semi last-minute get-together

1004
00:55:33,020 --> 00:55:31,680
but I still want to ask you a question

1005
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:33,030
whether it's in the book or not I'm not

1006
00:55:39,350 --> 00:55:35,010
sure but when we come back from this

1007
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:39,360
next break I want to ask you about love

1008
00:55:45,290 --> 00:55:43,890
and you know sort of dove dove tail off

1009
00:55:48,170 --> 00:55:45,300
of what we've been speaking about here

1010
00:55:51,890 --> 00:55:48,180
you know where does love that the

1011
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:51,900
sensation of love love itself where does

1012
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:54,960
that play as a factor into our very

1013
00:56:01,640 --> 00:55:57,570
existence in the grand scheme of things

1014
00:56:03,860 --> 00:56:01,650
so not a not a small question so a great

1015
00:56:05,870 --> 00:56:03,870
question well we'll be right back after

1016
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:05,880
this quick break the zombie Smith or

1017
00:56:12,290 --> 00:56:09,090
paranormal now and my guest is Joseph

1018
00:56:14,490 --> 00:56:12,300
Selby author of the physics of God stay

1019
00:56:25,230 --> 00:56:14,500
tuned we shall be right back

1020
00:56:30,859 --> 00:56:28,660
[Music]

1021
00:56:33,049 --> 00:56:30,869
welcome back to paranormal now this is

1022
00:56:35,630 --> 00:56:33,059
Alan B Smith your host on the inception

1023
00:56:38,089 --> 00:56:35,640
radio network and picking us out of the

1024
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:38,099
break was your love keeps lifting me

1025
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:40,710
higher and higher Jackie Wilson one of

1026
00:56:46,910 --> 00:56:42,960
the greatest songs of the the sixties

1027
00:56:48,380 --> 00:56:46,920
and maybe of all time anyway

1028
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,390
actually one night that phrasing me

1029
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:50,640
reminded me of a politician anyway I'll

1030
00:56:55,819 --> 00:56:52,160
leave it at that

1031
00:56:58,039 --> 00:56:55,829
welcome back to paranormal now and the

1032
00:57:01,039 --> 00:56:58,049
our guest tonight is Joseph Selby author

1033
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:01,049
of the physics of God and this has

1034
00:57:06,099 --> 00:57:04,170
really been a compelling conversation

1035
00:57:10,099 --> 00:57:06,109
I'm really enjoying it

1036
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:10,109
so Joseph I had asked you before we took

1037
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:14,210
the break if you could expand and

1038
00:57:21,019 --> 00:57:18,660
expound and explain to us what you think

1039
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:21,029
love is and how it fits into the grand

1040
00:57:28,759 --> 00:57:24,930
scheme of things it's a great question

1041
00:57:32,170 --> 00:57:28,769
it actually gives me a chance to kind of

1042
00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:32,180
segue a bit away from just talking about

1043
00:57:41,599 --> 00:57:38,609
religion in its own context and bring

1044
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:41,609
the discussion back to where we began

1045
00:57:47,210 --> 00:57:45,839
which is this unity of the underlying

1046
00:57:51,259 --> 00:57:47,220
discoveries of science and the

1047
00:57:54,740 --> 00:57:51,269
underlying tenants of religion well the

1048
00:57:58,960 --> 00:57:54,750
testimony of the saints and sages and

1049
00:58:02,539 --> 00:57:58,970
I'll answer your question in a way that

1050
00:58:04,809 --> 00:58:02,549
allows me to kind of bring in some of

1051
00:58:10,490 --> 00:58:04,819
those fundamental scientific discoveries

1052
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:10,500
so the Saints and sages would say we

1053
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:20,569
they would say that we feel love in our

1054
00:58:28,849 --> 00:58:25,710
subtle body in our energy body or astral

1055
00:58:31,839 --> 00:58:28,859
body etheric body spirit body it's a

1056
00:58:36,569 --> 00:58:31,849
term that you'll find everywhere in

1057
00:58:41,370 --> 00:58:36,579
mystical teachings and that in fact

1058
00:58:45,479 --> 00:58:41,380
most of what we think of as our selves

1059
00:58:50,809 --> 00:58:45,489
our vitality or life force our likes and

1060
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:50,819
dislikes are our will our creative

1061
00:58:57,539 --> 00:58:55,359
visualization and our feelings according

1062
00:59:02,179 --> 00:58:57,549
to the saints and sages they're seated

1063
00:59:05,939 --> 00:59:02,189
in the subtle body and although we

1064
00:59:08,609 --> 00:59:05,949
experience physiological results of

1065
00:59:12,359 --> 00:59:08,619
those feelings the heart of those

1066
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:12,369
feelings is in the subtle is in the

1067
00:59:23,299 --> 00:59:19,119
subtle energy so how then could science

1068
00:59:27,539 --> 00:59:23,309
support the notion that we have this

1069
00:59:31,319 --> 00:59:27,549
subtler reality that is interpenetrating

1070
00:59:34,919 --> 00:59:31,329
with our physical body and I got a lot

1071
00:59:36,779 --> 00:59:34,929
of the support for many of the things

1072
00:59:40,620 --> 00:59:36,789
that I find in the book or just

1073
00:59:43,289 --> 00:59:40,630
explaining the book from string theory

1074
00:59:44,459 --> 00:59:43,299
and particularly M theory so there's

1075
00:59:47,819 --> 00:59:44,469
going to be a little bit of a digression

1076
00:59:55,049 --> 00:59:47,829
to come back to and where we feel love

1077
01:00:00,900 --> 00:59:55,059
but string theory started off trying to

1078
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:00,910
explain why there is so much energy in

1079
01:00:10,009 --> 01:00:05,400
the cosmos compared in quantum physics

1080
01:00:13,439 --> 01:00:10,019
compared to the theories of relativity

1081
01:00:15,689 --> 01:00:13,449
the theories of retinol you can add up a

1082
01:00:17,699 --> 01:00:15,699
certain amount of you know background

1083
01:00:22,279 --> 01:00:17,709
ready radiation the cosmological

1084
01:00:25,890 --> 01:00:22,289
constant different measurements of

1085
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:25,900
energy that has to be present sort of in

1086
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:30,640
the fabric of the universe in order to

1087
01:00:37,819 --> 01:00:32,410
explain why the universe behaves the way

1088
01:00:41,429 --> 01:00:37,829
it does so quantum physics which

1089
01:00:45,850 --> 01:00:41,439
typically starts with the tiny and then

1090
01:00:54,940 --> 01:00:48,970
if they use their calculations that

1091
01:00:59,440 --> 01:00:54,950
describe the tiny the entire universe

1092
01:01:04,150 --> 01:00:59,450
should have vastly more energy in it

1093
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:04,160
than has ever been able to be detected

1094
01:01:09,590 --> 01:01:08,250
and if it did have that much energy in

1095
01:01:12,380 --> 01:01:09,600
it it's sort of like a factor of a

1096
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:12,390
hundred and twenty to that much bigger

1097
01:01:18,740 --> 01:01:15,690
than the amount of energy predicted by

1098
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:18,750
relativity and if it were present in the

1099
01:01:25,940 --> 01:01:21,150
physical universe the physical universe

1100
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:25,950
would behave far differently than it

1101
01:01:33,140 --> 01:01:29,040
does so quantum physicists ask

1102
01:01:35,590 --> 01:01:33,150
themselves where is this energy we

1103
01:01:38,260 --> 01:01:35,600
believe it's got to be there otherwise

1104
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:38,270
atoms wouldn't behave the way they do

1105
01:01:47,050 --> 01:01:41,970
that matter itself would not be able to

1106
01:01:51,620 --> 01:01:47,060
exist were it not for this vast field of

1107
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:51,630
energy and in fact the famous Higgs

1108
01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:55,250
boson and the you know triumphant

1109
01:02:01,940 --> 01:01:58,920
locating of where it is in terms of its

1110
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:01,950
its place in the whole spectrum out of

1111
01:02:12,290 --> 01:02:07,490
subatomic particles was really proof of

1112
01:02:14,330 --> 01:02:12,300
the higgs field and the Higgs field is a

1113
01:02:16,490 --> 01:02:14,340
much more important thing the explosion

1114
01:02:20,540 --> 01:02:16,500
by itself is interesting but it's the

1115
01:02:27,010 --> 01:02:20,550
fact that it confirmed the existence of

1116
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:27,020
a of a universal field of energy that

1117
01:02:34,700 --> 01:02:30,480
does not diminish with distance it's not

1118
01:02:36,860 --> 01:02:34,710
a magnetic field that quickly tails off

1119
01:02:39,650 --> 01:02:36,870
in strength the farther it is away from

1120
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:39,660
the magnet it's equally potent

1121
01:02:46,340 --> 01:02:42,480
everywhere in the universe so if this

1122
01:02:49,370 --> 01:02:46,350
exists why does the universe not just

1123
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:49,380
it's kind of explode into the distance

1124
01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:51,090
because there would be so much energy in

1125
01:02:56,180 --> 01:02:53,430
it that all the stars would be rocketing

1126
01:02:58,620 --> 01:02:56,190
away from us and in fact the universe

1127
01:03:02,900 --> 01:02:58,630
would never have formed at all

1128
01:03:07,230 --> 01:03:02,910
as it has if that energy were present

1129
01:03:12,329 --> 01:03:07,240
physically sure so so the string

1130
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:12,339
theorists say well this energy has to

1131
01:03:22,650 --> 01:03:15,839
exist but maybe it exists in other

1132
01:03:26,430 --> 01:03:22,660
dimensions that are unmeasurable from

1133
01:03:29,069 --> 01:03:26,440
our three physical dimensions but that

1134
01:03:30,660 --> 01:03:29,079
they definitely exist and there are two

1135
01:03:32,460 --> 01:03:30,670
sort of theories one of which they

1136
01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:32,470
started with and kind of abandoned after

1137
01:03:39,359 --> 01:03:35,950
a while was that these dimensions are

1138
01:03:43,259 --> 01:03:39,369
kind of wrapped into themselves so they

1139
01:03:45,799 --> 01:03:43,269
sort of curl into these tiny subspaces

1140
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:45,809
and then all this extra energy that

1141
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:48,160
exists in the universe is actually in

1142
01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:51,130
these tiny spaces and then another

1143
01:03:56,730 --> 01:03:54,160
theory came along was that well it would

1144
01:04:01,049 --> 01:03:56,740
actually be easier to explain if these

1145
01:04:03,269 --> 01:04:01,059
weren't tiny but they were enormous but

1146
01:04:05,130 --> 01:04:03,279
they were only two dimensional and this

1147
01:04:10,380 --> 01:04:05,140
is where we get em theory and brain

1148
01:04:12,539 --> 01:04:10,390
theory from just you said they're both

1149
01:04:17,460 --> 01:04:12,549
tiny and enormous or just enormous but

1150
01:04:19,079 --> 01:04:17,470
two dimensional so the tiny theory there

1151
01:04:24,170 --> 01:04:19,089
are still adherents to the tiny

1152
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:24,180
dimensions theory but it became more

1153
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:26,710
workable it answered more questions

1154
01:04:35,359 --> 01:04:31,599
essentially to do the giant brains the

1155
01:04:38,130 --> 01:04:35,369
giant bulk which is this pure energy

1156
01:04:38,970 --> 01:04:38,140
substrate for the entire Commonwealth

1157
01:04:42,930 --> 01:04:38,980
cosmos

1158
01:04:45,630 --> 01:04:42,940
I say and it's out this out of this bulk

1159
01:04:47,309 --> 01:04:45,640
out of this pure energy realm which I

1160
01:04:50,190 --> 01:04:47,319
tend to refer to just to eat more easily

1161
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:50,200
as the energy verse that bubble

1162
01:04:56,420 --> 01:04:52,690
universes are said to spring and that

1163
01:04:59,579 --> 01:04:56,430
our our universe as vast as it is

1164
01:05:03,539 --> 01:04:59,589
according to m-theory is just a tiny

1165
01:05:06,539 --> 01:05:03,549
bubble existing three-dimensional bubble

1166
01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:06,549
existing in a two-dimensional almost

1167
01:05:14,579 --> 01:05:10,809
infinitude of pure energy so this is

1168
01:05:18,180 --> 01:05:14,589
what string theory came to and M theory

1169
01:05:21,329 --> 01:05:18,190
in particular to explain where all this

1170
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:21,339
energy is it's there it's a super high

1171
01:05:30,029 --> 01:05:25,049
frequencies much higher than any

1172
01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:30,039
scientific instrument can detect and way

1173
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:32,230
beyond our ability of our senses to

1174
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:35,250
detect but yet it's ever-present it

1175
01:05:41,609 --> 01:05:40,720
interpenetrates us it's just so funny to

1176
01:05:43,650 --> 01:05:41,619
hear you say that

1177
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:43,660
in thinks but sounds like you're talking

1178
01:05:52,079 --> 01:05:46,089
about God you know there's these so many

1179
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:52,089
overlapping contextual descriptions you

1180
01:05:58,799 --> 01:05:55,690
know that the waters seem to be more

1181
01:06:02,039 --> 01:05:58,809
muddier the harder science tries to

1182
01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:02,049
explain the universe yes well they keep

1183
01:06:05,819 --> 01:06:04,240
trying and they do they that's amazing

1184
01:06:08,999 --> 01:06:05,829
what they have oh my gosh

1185
01:06:11,490 --> 01:06:09,009
yeah discovered and proposed but I find

1186
01:06:14,190 --> 01:06:11,500
it even more amazing that if you you

1187
01:06:18,329 --> 01:06:14,200
can't reconcile all scientific theory

1188
01:06:20,999 --> 01:06:18,339
into one theory you know there are very

1189
01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:21,009
different theories based on opinions of

1190
01:06:29,180 --> 01:06:25,049
different scientists but there is enough

1191
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:29,190
reputable sciences scientists who

1192
01:06:35,700 --> 01:06:32,319
embrace things like in theory even

1193
01:06:38,430 --> 01:06:35,710
though it's largely unproven because

1194
01:06:42,950 --> 01:06:38,440
they see how it answers some of these

1195
01:06:46,950 --> 01:06:42,960
other fundamental questions like why is

1196
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:46,960
there an uncertainty principle and how

1197
01:06:51,180 --> 01:06:47,970
can

1198
01:06:55,140 --> 01:06:51,190
paranormal phenomenon be true they have

1199
01:06:56,730 --> 01:06:55,150
to start taking these into account well

1200
01:06:59,160 --> 01:06:56,740
the other thing that the M theorists did

1201
01:07:06,539 --> 01:06:59,170
and one thing we hear a lot about is

1202
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:06,549
that David Bohm who is actually probably

1203
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:08,890
not considered a string theorist

1204
01:07:15,890 --> 01:07:11,609
although many of the things that he

1205
01:07:19,019 --> 01:07:15,900
espoused and developed mathematics for

1206
01:07:22,100 --> 01:07:19,029
are subsequently adopted by string

1207
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:22,110
theory and one of them is

1208
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:27,810
the holographic principle so beau in his

1209
01:07:47,410 --> 01:07:40,930
basically why how is it possible that

1210
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:47,420
matter can be absolutely propertyless

1211
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:49,890
until it's observed by an intelligent

1212
01:07:57,020 --> 01:07:52,890
observer and then springs into a

1213
01:07:59,690 --> 01:07:57,030
particular form and he posited that

1214
01:08:04,370 --> 01:07:59,700
there must be like Heisenberg posited

1215
01:08:06,860 --> 01:08:04,380
this realm which he called pre space its

1216
01:08:10,370 --> 01:08:06,870
non-local in the language of on to

1217
01:08:13,010 --> 01:08:10,380
physics it's two dimensional and he

1218
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:13,020
called this this pre space

1219
01:08:22,970 --> 01:08:19,170
Mayr the implicit order existed and he

1220
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:22,980
called this where all forms in the

1221
01:08:32,780 --> 01:08:28,170
universe are excuse me all forms in the

1222
01:08:35,300 --> 01:08:32,790
energy verse in pre space were folded

1223
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:35,310
into two dimensions and then when they

1224
01:08:43,700 --> 01:08:40,290
emerge into the physical universe they

1225
01:08:48,110 --> 01:08:43,710
become part of the explicate order and

1226
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,120
they unfold into three dimensions so he

1227
01:08:52,610 --> 01:08:50,400
developed an entire mathematics called

1228
01:08:58,390 --> 01:08:52,620
bohmian mechanics mm-hmm

1229
01:09:02,260 --> 01:08:58,400
based on this notion and it's still a

1230
01:09:06,740 --> 01:09:02,270
heavy candidate for being a true

1231
01:09:09,980 --> 01:09:06,750
mathematics or reality so he's theorized

1232
01:09:14,510 --> 01:09:09,990
if I if I have this correct the two

1233
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:14,520
dimensional construct can can turn into

1234
01:09:23,090 --> 01:09:18,330
a three dimensional contract exactly huh

1235
01:09:27,170 --> 01:09:23,100
okay and that led him to the mathematics

1236
01:09:31,450 --> 01:09:27,180
of holography which existed in his

1237
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:31,460
lifetime and using the math of Holograms

1238
01:09:39,460 --> 01:09:35,330
he was able to apply that to his

1239
01:09:41,650 --> 01:09:39,470
implicit explicate order and he came to

1240
01:09:45,130 --> 01:09:41,660
the conclusion he was what the first

1241
01:09:48,579 --> 01:09:45,140
maybe not the first that our entire

1242
01:09:53,050 --> 01:09:48,589
physical universe is a holographic

1243
01:10:02,620 --> 01:09:53,060
projection from the two dimensional

1244
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:02,630
energy verse okay so there's a template

1245
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:07,970
there's a folded template which he

1246
01:10:15,630 --> 01:10:10,850
referred to as the implicit order that

1247
01:10:18,550 --> 01:10:15,640
when when drawed in so to speak to the

1248
01:10:21,070 --> 01:10:18,560
three-dimensional world of the physical

1249
01:10:24,970 --> 01:10:21,080
universe takes on all those three

1250
01:10:27,790 --> 01:10:24,980
dimensions so it reminds me uh are you

1251
01:10:33,250 --> 01:10:27,800
familiar with I think it's Miguel Ruiz

1252
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:33,260
author of The Four Agreements I think

1253
01:10:43,180 --> 01:10:36,050
the subtitle was a toltec wisdom guide

1254
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:43,190
have you heard this well it reminds me

1255
01:10:46,510 --> 01:10:44,330
that you know he

1256
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:46,520
I can't remember the exact phrasing but

1257
01:10:55,540 --> 01:10:49,850
of something like a fog you know that we

1258
01:11:01,000 --> 01:10:55,550
that life is as we see it as an illusion

1259
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:01,010
and I think a lot of you know mystics

1260
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:07,850
speak in a similar way so if we are a

1261
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:13,120
projection of a two-dimensional universe

1262
01:11:20,290 --> 01:11:16,850
then in the sense everything is an

1263
01:11:23,740 --> 01:11:20,300
illusion I don't know it's really hard

1264
01:11:26,350 --> 01:11:23,750
to to kind of wrap your head around that

1265
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:26,360
because how can I even conceive of a

1266
01:11:33,730 --> 01:11:28,130
two-dimensional space in the first place

1267
01:11:42,700 --> 01:11:33,740
in I don't know where do you how do you

1268
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:42,710
feel about language is couched in three

1269
01:11:47,820 --> 01:11:45,130
dimensional terms for the most part yeah

1270
01:11:53,220 --> 01:11:47,830
but

1271
01:11:57,300 --> 01:11:53,230
an analogy that I have come across that

1272
01:12:01,100 --> 01:11:57,310
has been used by Saints and sages and

1273
01:12:05,700 --> 01:12:01,110
near-death experiences or is that the

1274
01:12:08,220 --> 01:12:05,710
two dimensional reality that they go to

1275
01:12:12,570 --> 01:12:08,230
in transcendent experiences in

1276
01:12:17,250 --> 01:12:12,580
near-death experiences is like images on

1277
01:12:20,970 --> 01:12:17,260
a movie screen they give all the

1278
01:12:23,100 --> 01:12:20,980
appearance of three dimensionality but

1279
01:12:26,700 --> 01:12:23,110
they're not in fact three dimensional

1280
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:26,710
and yet you can easily get caught up in

1281
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:30,400
a movie and feel yourself moving with

1282
01:12:37,070 --> 01:12:32,880
the characters through space and

1283
01:12:40,230 --> 01:12:37,080
interacting with a a fully fleshed out

1284
01:12:42,780 --> 01:12:40,240
three-dimensional world even more so

1285
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:42,790
with virtual reality I'm sure and yet

1286
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:46,710
and yet that's all two-dimensional so

1287
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:50,170
the description they give is that you're

1288
01:12:58,320 --> 01:12:54,730
in Ain a luminous reality that is

1289
01:13:01,530 --> 01:12:58,330
spaceless and matter less it's not

1290
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:01,540
three-dimensional but as one near-death

1291
01:13:07,710 --> 01:13:04,930
experiencer said this reality that you

1292
01:13:12,030 --> 01:13:07,720
experience in these transcendent States

1293
01:13:18,930 --> 01:13:12,040
and near-death experiences is the clear

1294
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:18,940
bright print from which a grosser more

1295
01:13:25,380 --> 01:13:21,010
imperfect print that we know as the

1296
01:13:27,630 --> 01:13:25,390
physical universe is made so the

1297
01:13:30,690 --> 01:13:27,640
hologram for anything to have a

1298
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:30,700
holographic projection there has to be a

1299
01:13:36,540 --> 01:13:33,010
hologram the hologram is the

1300
01:13:38,910 --> 01:13:36,550
two-dimensional film that contains all

1301
01:13:42,030 --> 01:13:38,920
the information and if you shine light

1302
01:13:43,230 --> 01:13:42,040
through it it creates it's not exactly

1303
01:13:45,180 --> 01:13:43,240
shining light through it you have to

1304
01:13:48,750 --> 01:13:45,190
shine laser light through it in a

1305
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:48,760
particular way but it creates a

1306
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:51,370
three-dimensional image as a result of

1307
01:13:59,670 --> 01:13:55,570
that interaction between the information

1308
01:14:00,750 --> 01:13:59,680
in the hologram and the light energy so

1309
01:14:02,850 --> 01:14:00,760
what the

1310
01:14:09,540 --> 01:14:02,860
theorists are saying what Bob said is

1311
01:14:14,100 --> 01:14:09,550
that this energy verse is the source of

1312
01:14:16,109 --> 01:14:14,110
the information it's why we can't tell

1313
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:16,119
whether a atom

1314
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:18,760
we can't tell both its position and

1315
01:14:26,399 --> 01:14:21,760
momentum we have this uncertainty Intel

1316
01:14:29,729 --> 01:14:26,409
it manifests because the information the

1317
01:14:32,790 --> 01:14:29,739
properties that determine that are

1318
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:32,800
present in the physical world the

1319
01:14:39,660 --> 01:14:34,210
information the properties that

1320
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,670
determinants are in the energy versus

1321
01:14:45,930 --> 01:14:42,239
truth universe so it's something like

1322
01:14:48,419 --> 01:14:45,940
that we go to the movie theater the

1323
01:14:51,689 --> 01:14:48,429
characters that are on the screen we see

1324
01:14:56,310 --> 01:14:51,699
the light projecting them but those

1325
01:14:57,870 --> 01:14:56,320
characters are in unable to even

1326
01:15:00,080 --> 01:14:57,880
recognize that there is a light

1327
01:15:03,779 --> 01:15:00,090
projecting them in the first place

1328
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:03,789
well that's true movies but it's only an

1329
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:07,510
analogy the way that the Masters and

1330
01:15:18,870 --> 01:15:10,960
mystics describe it is that we also are

1331
01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:18,880
somewhere in that movie but when were on

1332
01:15:24,750 --> 01:15:21,369
the physical world in the physical world

1333
01:15:30,330 --> 01:15:24,760
in our physical bodies which are

1334
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:30,340
themselves holographic projections we

1335
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:32,530
are more caught up in our own personal

1336
01:15:37,770 --> 01:15:35,530
holographic projection we feel it's it's

1337
01:15:41,879 --> 01:15:37,780
solid we feel like we need to take care

1338
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:41,889
of it and that it's going to you know

1339
01:15:46,770 --> 01:15:44,320
give us pleasures of various kinds when

1340
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:46,780
we eat and sleep when we have sex when

1341
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:50,800
we do many things and so we tend to get

1342
01:15:58,740 --> 01:15:52,690
really attached to taking care of that

1343
01:16:02,580 --> 01:15:58,750
physical body but just as the heart of

1344
01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:02,590
the information that forms the entire

1345
01:16:10,729 --> 01:16:06,159
physical universe is seated in the

1346
01:16:13,859 --> 01:16:10,739
energy verse the information the

1347
01:16:19,709 --> 01:16:13,869
feelings the convictions

1348
01:16:24,030 --> 01:16:19,719
the thoughts the will that animates our

1349
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:24,040
physical body is actually present in our

1350
01:16:31,339 --> 01:16:28,480
energy so this comes full circle to

1351
01:16:35,450 --> 01:16:31,349
where you start asked the question our

1352
01:16:43,020 --> 01:16:35,460
energy bodies are more naturally attuned

1353
01:16:46,820 --> 01:16:43,030
to the ever-present reality of infinite

1354
01:16:51,169 --> 01:16:46,830
love infinite joy infinite wisdom

1355
01:16:55,169 --> 01:16:51,179
infinite peace and calmness and that

1356
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:55,179
this is why heaven and this is really

1357
01:17:00,030 --> 01:16:57,130
what I'm describing it the same way that

1358
01:17:03,180 --> 01:17:00,040
all the heavens of that religions around

1359
01:17:08,339 --> 01:17:03,190
the world are described as being pure

1360
01:17:12,930 --> 01:17:08,349
higher freed of limitations no need to

1361
01:17:17,300 --> 01:17:12,940
eat no need to sleep that you are freed

1362
01:17:19,740 --> 01:17:17,310
of the burdens of the physical body

1363
01:17:23,010 --> 01:17:19,750
that's really how heaven is described

1364
01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:23,020
and that's what the near-death

1365
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:26,710
experiencers and masters and mystics

1366
01:17:35,459 --> 01:17:30,719
describe this higher plane of existence

1367
01:17:38,180 --> 01:17:35,469
so is the higher is that higher plane of

1368
01:17:43,470 --> 01:17:38,190
existence of the two-dimensional plane

1369
01:17:46,020 --> 01:17:43,480
correct okay all right and we're in that

1370
01:17:50,339 --> 01:17:46,030
plane this is where it really gets hard

1371
01:17:54,930 --> 01:17:50,349
but to even begin to visualize is that

1372
01:17:56,899 --> 01:17:54,940
we're in that plane now hmm Bergkamp

1373
01:18:01,950 --> 01:17:56,909
opal or both or both end

1374
01:18:05,490 --> 01:18:01,960
we're both hmm you can't have a physical

1375
01:18:09,419 --> 01:18:05,500
body if it weren't interpenetrated by

1376
01:18:13,810 --> 01:18:09,429
and supported in every instant by your

1377
01:18:23,770 --> 01:18:20,980
so is the witch that's the same thing

1378
01:18:27,580 --> 01:18:23,780
that M theorists are saying about the

1379
01:18:30,940 --> 01:18:27,590
physical universe if you didn't have the

1380
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:30,950
holographic information present in the

1381
01:18:38,430 --> 01:18:34,130
energy verse the physical universe would

1382
01:18:43,020 --> 01:18:38,440
cease to exist okay so the universe it's

1383
01:18:46,420 --> 01:18:43,030
continuously created uh-huh now if they

1384
01:18:50,350 --> 01:18:46,430
assuming they can prove that one way or

1385
01:18:57,700 --> 01:18:50,360
another doesn't that still leave and

1386
01:19:01,570 --> 01:18:57,710
Grenada great mystery of what the what

1387
01:19:06,250 --> 01:19:01,580
the origin is does it or does that

1388
01:19:08,950 --> 01:19:06,260
somehow answer the origin well it is an

1389
01:19:11,650 --> 01:19:08,960
answer to the origin I can't say that it

1390
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:11,660
inherently answers that question but an

1391
01:19:22,330 --> 01:19:18,080
answer is that God created and continues

1392
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:22,340
to create the universe through his

1393
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:25,330
intelligence or its intelligence or her

1394
01:19:35,140 --> 01:19:30,890
intelligence applied to this energy

1395
01:19:39,310 --> 01:19:35,150
verse which then projects the physical

1396
01:19:41,770 --> 01:19:39,320
universe and so the origin the substrate

1397
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:41,780
of everything is the infinite

1398
01:19:49,060 --> 01:19:47,090
consciousness of God is God because it's

1399
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:49,070
the easiest word to use but you know

1400
01:19:53,770 --> 01:19:52,130
many people use other words but God is

1401
01:19:56,070 --> 01:19:53,780
infinite consciousness and in that

1402
01:20:00,300 --> 01:19:56,080
infinite consciousness is inherently

1403
01:20:04,810 --> 01:20:00,310
powerful it's inherently joyful loving

1404
01:20:08,050 --> 01:20:04,820
peaceful well okay there's that that's

1405
01:20:12,060 --> 01:20:08,060
the question though is how do we know

1406
01:20:16,060 --> 01:20:12,070
that that's why that it is inherently

1407
01:20:21,550 --> 01:20:18,900
because what the saints and sages

1408
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:21,560
testified okay and you and you you

1409
01:20:28,630 --> 01:20:25,250
believe that well my personal experience

1410
01:20:32,380 --> 01:20:28,640
nowhere nowhere near as lofty as those

1411
01:20:34,780 --> 01:20:32,390
people who I'm referring to the Masters

1412
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:34,790
who am i referring to my own experience

1413
01:20:45,210 --> 01:20:40,130
is that the more I go within the more I

1414
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:45,220
identify with that subtle energy body

1415
01:20:52,900 --> 01:20:48,890
which is now in terms of sort of

1416
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:52,910
esoteric teachings that dark are our

1417
01:20:59,470 --> 01:20:56,330
chakra system it's our esoteric body and

1418
01:21:03,790 --> 01:20:59,480
almost all mystical paths describe this

1419
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:03,800
other inner world that you explore

1420
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:06,410
through meditation and other techniques

1421
01:21:15,250 --> 01:21:10,610
but the more I feel connected to that

1422
01:21:18,690 --> 01:21:15,260
and the less I am garaged with sensory

1423
01:21:24,490 --> 01:21:18,700
information and barrage just with the

1424
01:21:30,150 --> 01:21:24,500
sensation of being a physical body the

1425
01:21:33,700 --> 01:21:30,160
more joyful the more peaceful the more

1426
01:21:36,970 --> 01:21:33,710
loved I feel and that's why I say for me

1427
01:21:39,790 --> 01:21:36,980
there's just no question because I've

1428
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:39,800
had that experience over it over and

1429
01:21:46,090 --> 01:21:43,010
over and over again not in you know vast

1430
01:21:50,830 --> 01:21:46,100
ways maybe it's just a few seconds

1431
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:50,840
sometimes but put it all together and

1432
01:21:55,870 --> 01:21:53,840
it's utterly convincing to me but I

1433
01:21:58,720 --> 01:21:55,880
think for anyone to really believe it

1434
01:22:01,390 --> 01:21:58,730
just like I didn't necessarily believe

1435
01:22:03,330 --> 01:22:01,400
that I was open to it they really need

1436
01:22:06,130 --> 01:22:03,340
to go experience it they really need to

1437
01:22:09,940 --> 01:22:06,140
practice meditation do these techniques

1438
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:09,950
that take you into that subtle self then

1439
01:22:15,070 --> 01:22:12,770
you can say ah I I get what these

1440
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:15,080
masters and mystics are saying I now

1441
01:22:23,050 --> 01:22:20,690
understand why they're so thrilled why

1442
01:22:27,330 --> 01:22:23,060
they're so moved by their experience

1443
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:27,340
what one when one experiences

1444
01:22:37,530 --> 01:22:32,850
love that sensation is it the same

1445
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:37,540
biological chemical cause that creates

1446
01:22:43,860 --> 01:22:40,530
that that sensation as when you

1447
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:43,870
accomplish something creative in your

1448
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:45,489
and you just get this rush if I finally

1449
01:22:49,380 --> 01:22:47,410
did it I've completed it or your

1450
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:49,390
favorite baseball team wins a game or

1451
01:22:56,490 --> 01:22:53,679
you just went through you know went to

1452
01:23:00,050 --> 01:22:56,500
the New York Philharmonic and orchestra

1453
01:23:02,550 --> 01:23:00,060
and had this just you know uplifting

1454
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:02,560
experience and all of these variations

1455
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:05,650
of pleasure is love through science can

1456
01:23:10,470 --> 01:23:08,890
is it markedly different in the

1457
01:23:13,110 --> 01:23:10,480
physiological explanation of that

1458
01:23:17,220 --> 01:23:13,120
experience then the other reward

1459
01:23:19,729 --> 01:23:17,230
experiences well I think that the

1460
01:23:24,180 --> 01:23:19,739
distinction I would make there is that

1461
01:23:27,959 --> 01:23:24,190
you feel first in your subtle body you

1462
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:27,969
feel that sense of completion and

1463
01:23:36,020 --> 01:23:29,890
satisfaction of a creative project

1464
01:23:38,939 --> 01:23:36,030
well-done or feeling a sense of you know

1465
01:23:42,090 --> 01:23:38,949
wonderful communion with another person

1466
01:23:46,169 --> 01:23:42,100
whether it's a friend or girlfriend or

1467
01:23:48,959 --> 01:23:46,179
you know a parent you feel that but you

1468
01:23:51,450 --> 01:23:48,969
feel at first in the physical body I

1469
01:23:55,590 --> 01:23:51,460
mean in the subtle body and then there

1470
01:24:01,590 --> 01:23:55,600
is a cascade of effects from that

1471
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:01,600
feeling that are biochemical and both of

1472
01:24:06,570 --> 01:24:04,320
them are real I think it's important for

1473
01:24:10,189 --> 01:24:06,580
for people to understand that when you

1474
01:24:13,890 --> 01:24:10,199
say that the universe is an illusion or

1475
01:24:17,250 --> 01:24:13,900
the your body is an illusion it doesn't

1476
01:24:19,290 --> 01:24:17,260
mean it's not there it just means it

1477
01:24:20,729 --> 01:24:19,300
isn't what it seems all right well let's

1478
01:24:22,169 --> 01:24:20,739
hold it right there Joseph and we'll

1479
01:24:24,270 --> 01:24:22,179
pick this up when we come back from the

1480
01:24:25,740 --> 01:24:24,280
last short break this is Alan B Smith

1481
01:24:27,900 --> 01:24:25,750
for paranormal now on the inception

1482
01:24:29,250 --> 01:24:27,910
radio network stay tuned we'll be right

1483
01:24:39,170 --> 01:24:29,260
back

1484
01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:41,670
that's a paranormal now this is Ellen B

1485
01:24:46,650 --> 01:24:43,630
Smith your host on the exception radio

1486
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:46,660
network which I am extraordinarily

1487
01:24:52,050 --> 01:24:49,690
grateful to have this opportunity that

1488
01:24:55,710 --> 01:24:52,060
was given to me by the producers Joe

1489
01:24:57,180 --> 01:24:55,720
champion MJ Lucas and Bob tarmac who

1490
01:24:59,610 --> 01:24:57,190
typically I wait to the end of the

1491
01:25:01,140 --> 01:24:59,620
program to thank them you know I wanted

1492
01:25:03,150 --> 01:25:01,150
to thank them now while we're still in

1493
01:25:06,890 --> 01:25:03,160
the drillers show here because these

1494
01:25:11,630 --> 01:25:06,900
guys worked really hard to bring an

1495
01:25:16,650 --> 01:25:11,640
enormous number of hours a paranormal

1496
01:25:21,140 --> 01:25:16,660
alternative radio to you and you know

1497
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:21,150
they deserve they deserved the regard

1498
01:25:26,910 --> 01:25:23,770
for their efforts that that that that

1499
01:25:30,150 --> 01:25:26,920
they do and I just can't express how

1500
01:25:32,220 --> 01:25:30,160
much gratitude I have for them for not

1501
01:25:36,690 --> 01:25:32,230
only just you know from from this

1502
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:36,700
program before trying to get as much

1503
01:25:42,750 --> 01:25:39,130
information out there that is otherwise

1504
01:25:46,860 --> 01:25:42,760
not accessible and it's true yes there

1505
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:46,870
are a lot of paranormal radio programs

1506
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:48,970
that are streaming a lot of independent

1507
01:25:56,540 --> 01:25:53,530
podcasts but this network as far as

1508
01:26:00,420 --> 01:25:56,550
internet streaming is one of the largest

1509
01:26:02,010 --> 01:26:00,430
and it's only because they put their

1510
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:02,020
blood sweat and tears and passion behind

1511
01:26:10,110 --> 01:26:07,810
it so again thank you Joe Bob and MJ and

1512
01:26:13,260 --> 01:26:10,120
taking us out of the break was a ray of

1513
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:13,270
light by Madonna now I want to continue

1514
01:26:20,370 --> 01:26:16,810
this last thought we left off with when

1515
01:26:22,530 --> 01:26:20,380
I was speaking with Joseph author of the

1516
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:22,540
physics of God just of Selby and we're

1517
01:26:25,950 --> 01:26:24,250
talking about love

1518
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:25,960
so Joseph I don't know if you wanted to

1519
01:26:31,980 --> 01:26:29,290
sort of wrap up you know your thoughts

1520
01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:31,990
on the the physiological reward system

1521
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:34,450
and and anyway I'll let you let let you

1522
01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:39,360
take it from there well see if I can

1523
01:26:44,210 --> 01:26:42,400
bring it back to a closure from where we

1524
01:26:46,830 --> 01:26:44,220
started so

1525
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:46,840
the saints and sages say we have this

1526
01:26:54,780 --> 01:26:49,570
subtle body the astral body the energy

1527
01:26:58,940 --> 01:26:54,790
body and debt the origin of our finer

1528
01:27:02,280 --> 01:26:58,950
feelings our higher feelings and even

1529
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:02,290
negative emotions like anger and hate

1530
01:27:11,310 --> 01:27:07,530
are in that energetic body so anytime we

1531
01:27:13,350 --> 01:27:11,320
tune into one of those feelings when we

1532
01:27:16,940 --> 01:27:13,360
experience that feeling whatever the

1533
01:27:20,610 --> 01:27:16,950
cause there is a cascade of

1534
01:27:26,180 --> 01:27:20,620
physiological results from having that

1535
01:27:29,610 --> 01:27:26,190
feeling and this is why holistic health

1536
01:27:32,130 --> 01:27:29,620
takes into account of what you're

1537
01:27:37,230 --> 01:27:32,140
thinking what you're feeling and that

1538
01:27:40,470 --> 01:27:37,240
the very power of those feelings can

1539
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:40,480
make you enormous ly healthy or it can

1540
01:27:47,580 --> 01:27:43,690
kill you prematurely because there is

1541
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:47,590
that connection but the feeling starts

1542
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:51,130
in your subtle body and then triggers

1543
01:27:58,500 --> 01:27:54,370
the reaction in your physiological body

1544
01:28:00,600 --> 01:27:58,510
so you you feel love as we say we feel

1545
01:28:03,630 --> 01:28:00,610
it in the heart there's no there's no

1546
01:28:07,140 --> 01:28:03,640
organ in the physical body that you know

1547
01:28:10,440 --> 01:28:07,150
matches that well I mean I could say

1548
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:10,450
through personal experience and I think

1549
01:28:15,660 --> 01:28:11,890
everyone would say the same thing it

1550
01:28:17,940 --> 01:28:15,670
feels different there is something

1551
01:28:22,580 --> 01:28:17,950
unique and special we differentiate

1552
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:22,590
between a crush on another person

1553
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:25,570
infatuation for another person a

1554
01:28:32,130 --> 01:28:27,850
physical attraction for another person

1555
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:32,140
and love love is this other category

1556
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:34,690
that crosses over so many other

1557
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:38,050
boundaries not just it's a it's the same

1558
01:28:44,580 --> 01:28:41,890
or similar feeling between the romantic

1559
01:28:46,050 --> 01:28:44,590
relationship and you know the

1560
01:28:47,490 --> 01:28:46,060
relationship you have with someone that

1561
01:28:49,620 --> 01:28:47,500
you don't know just you you have an

1562
01:28:53,790 --> 01:28:49,630
altruistic love for that person in their

1563
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:53,800
well-being when you see them suffer it's

1564
01:28:56,990 --> 01:28:55,930
a it's a like use I think you said

1565
01:29:02,270 --> 01:28:57,000
earlier the more like a

1566
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:02,280
subtle sensation it does feel like a

1567
01:29:08,900 --> 01:29:06,960
deeper well of and I don't want to say

1568
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:08,910
emotion but more of a sensation because

1569
01:29:16,300 --> 01:29:11,610
I'm I'm speaking of that that bigger

1570
01:29:19,700 --> 01:29:16,310
love that you feel and because of that

1571
01:29:22,540 --> 01:29:19,710
you know you have how many musicians and

1572
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:22,550
songwriters and philosophers and

1573
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:28,400
religious philosophers you know leading

1574
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:33,090
their their thoughts with love and

1575
01:29:37,790 --> 01:29:35,850
compassion and that this is the way this

1576
01:29:41,350 --> 01:29:37,800
is this is how we should be living this

1577
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:41,360
is the way to bring organization and

1578
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:46,290
take away chaos to eliminate it to bring

1579
01:29:52,030 --> 01:29:49,890
peace and centeredness the you know it's

1580
01:29:55,460 --> 01:29:52,040
always no one is saying hate is the way

1581
01:29:57,530 --> 01:29:55,470
you know no one is saying right I mean

1582
01:30:03,790 --> 01:29:57,540
no one is saying angst is the way it's

1583
01:30:08,030 --> 01:30:03,800
it's always is love and you know it is

1584
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:08,040
in my mind difficult to explain simply

1585
01:30:12,890 --> 01:30:10,730
as a biological function

1586
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:12,900
though I am NOT ruling that out of

1587
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:14,010
course because I think there is good

1588
01:30:17,930 --> 01:30:15,690
science to suggest that like think you

1589
01:30:20,780 --> 01:30:17,940
were sort of inferring before but um

1590
01:30:23,090 --> 01:30:20,790
anyway so we'll move on from the topic

1591
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:23,100
of love because that's a topic that I

1592
01:30:30,170 --> 01:30:26,970
love and will I'm gonna ask you a

1593
01:30:35,510 --> 01:30:30,180
question and I'd really like to hear

1594
01:30:38,570 --> 01:30:35,520
what you have to say do you a believe in

1595
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:38,580
aliens as in extraterrestrials or

1596
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:43,850
interdimensional visitations and if so

1597
01:30:53,899 --> 01:30:49,050
is there a relationship between humans

1598
01:31:04,770 --> 01:30:57,229
an interesting question I guess I would

1599
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:04,780
characterize myself as believing readily

1600
01:31:15,060 --> 01:31:11,010
believing that there are aliens and

1601
01:31:18,899 --> 01:31:15,070
quite readily believing that aliens

1602
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:18,909
could have come to the earth could still

1603
01:31:28,620 --> 01:31:24,639
be on the earth but I guess from a it

1604
01:31:34,790 --> 01:31:28,630
doesn't sort of inherently fascinate I

1605
01:31:37,890 --> 01:31:34,800
don't think we need a Lien's to explain

1606
01:31:39,270 --> 01:31:37,900
past scientific development I don't

1607
01:31:42,930 --> 01:31:39,280
think we need a lian's

1608
01:31:48,410 --> 01:31:42,940
to save us I don't think we need a

1609
01:31:53,250 --> 01:31:48,420
lian's to allow us to live you know deep

1610
01:31:55,470 --> 01:31:53,260
fulfilling loving lives so they I mean I

1611
01:31:56,580 --> 01:31:55,480
hate to be sound dismissive because

1612
01:32:00,120 --> 01:31:56,590
they're not really trying to be

1613
01:32:04,109 --> 01:32:00,130
dismissive but personally it's just not

1614
01:32:07,919 --> 01:32:04,119
that interesting to me because I think

1615
01:32:10,979 --> 01:32:07,929
what I'm much more satisfied with is

1616
01:32:14,189 --> 01:32:10,989
going deeper into the spiritual

1617
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:14,199
teachings that have been offered by all

1618
01:32:20,850 --> 01:32:17,050
the Masters and mystics because I've had

1619
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:20,860
so much personal satisfaction with them

1620
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:25,090
so do you think that the curiosity and

1621
01:32:30,540 --> 01:32:29,050
often extremely intense curiosity in the

1622
01:32:33,629 --> 01:32:30,550
preoccupation and study of

1623
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:33,639
extraterrestrial beings whether they

1624
01:32:41,629 --> 01:32:37,690
exist or not is partially because we are

1625
01:32:45,899 --> 01:32:41,639
seeking answers and seeking some sort of

1626
01:32:49,589 --> 01:32:45,909
satisfying explanation for why we are

1627
01:32:53,879 --> 01:32:49,599
here who we are and someone like

1628
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:53,889
yourself finds that you don't need that

1629
01:32:58,320 --> 01:32:55,690
whether they exist or not is cool but

1630
01:33:00,149 --> 01:32:58,330
you are finding a certain amount of

1631
01:33:03,089 --> 01:33:00,159
satisfaction and a certain amount of

1632
01:33:04,770 --> 01:33:03,099
answering through your your spiritual

1633
01:33:13,659 --> 01:33:04,780
path

1634
01:33:17,709 --> 01:33:13,669
that I follow the teachings of pharmacy

1635
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:17,719
Yogananda has you know plenty of room

1636
01:33:26,049 --> 01:33:22,610
for there to be extraterrestrials and in

1637
01:33:31,989 --> 01:33:26,059
fact as you said trans dimensional

1638
01:33:36,009 --> 01:33:31,999
beings Yogananda in a interpretation of

1639
01:33:39,219 --> 01:33:36,019
the bhagavad-gita mentioned that there

1640
01:33:45,609 --> 01:33:39,229
were beings that lived on the surfaces

1641
01:33:48,370 --> 01:33:45,619
of Suns that were 10 miles tall and he

1642
01:33:52,319 --> 01:33:48,380
referred to the fact that there are vast

1643
01:33:58,330 --> 01:33:52,329
numbers of other planets in our universe

1644
01:34:01,449 --> 01:33:58,340
that have intelligent life so I'm quite

1645
01:34:03,159 --> 01:34:01,459
a column with it as a as a concept and

1646
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:03,169
he was quite at home with it as a

1647
01:34:09,729 --> 01:34:06,650
concept but he didn't make the other

1648
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:09,739
connection that often gets made which

1649
01:34:16,449 --> 01:34:12,320
may as you were alluding lead people to

1650
01:34:18,609 --> 01:34:16,459
think they have answers that we need or

1651
01:34:22,149 --> 01:34:18,619
figuring them out as an answer we need

1652
01:34:24,009 --> 01:34:22,159
he didn't go there he said you know the

1653
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:24,019
deeper answers the bigger answers the

1654
01:34:32,229 --> 01:34:29,090
cosmic answers are found in your own

1655
01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:32,239
inner exploration of your own

1656
01:34:36,699 --> 01:34:34,400
consciousness and you don't have to go

1657
01:34:39,129 --> 01:34:36,709
anywhere or learn anything outside of

1658
01:34:41,189 --> 01:34:39,139
yourself to be able to do that have you

1659
01:34:44,949 --> 01:34:41,199
have your Red Rum doses be here now oh

1660
01:34:47,949 --> 01:34:44,959
yeah was the early inspiration for me

1661
01:34:49,359 --> 01:34:47,959
getting into spiritual teachings did a

1662
01:34:53,259 --> 01:34:49,369
fit did you feel like it messed with

1663
01:34:55,179 --> 01:34:53,269
your head a little bit yes but a lot

1664
01:35:00,100 --> 01:34:55,189
many of my generation I was messing with

1665
01:35:04,209 --> 01:35:00,110
my hand what why not yeah when I when I

1666
01:35:09,310 --> 01:35:04,219
read it it was like it did something to

1667
01:35:12,939 --> 01:35:09,320
my mind do you know it felt like my mind

1668
01:35:15,830 --> 01:35:12,949
was being shifted you know in slightly

1669
01:35:18,820 --> 01:35:15,840
into an an alternate world

1670
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:18,830
you know a you know not opinion but a

1671
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:22,080
state of mind and it was a it's an

1672
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:24,570
interesting read when you sort of just

1673
01:35:30,530 --> 01:35:28,770
let go a it it is similar as similar as

1674
01:35:33,020 --> 01:35:30,540
you can through the reading and

1675
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:33,030
imagination as going on like an acid

1676
01:35:39,109 --> 01:35:35,130
trip or the psilocybin trip or something

1677
01:35:42,470 --> 01:35:39,119
like that I just found it almost magical

1678
01:35:48,500 --> 01:35:42,480
in that sense and spellbinding and

1679
01:35:50,859 --> 01:35:48,510
bounding you know literally and it makes

1680
01:35:53,450 --> 01:35:50,869
me wonder did he did he really go

1681
01:35:56,930 --> 01:35:53,460
somewhere else and bring a sort of a

1682
01:35:59,300 --> 01:35:56,940
code back from from that other maybe

1683
01:36:01,600 --> 01:35:59,310
like we've spoken to of earlier the

1684
01:36:04,550 --> 01:36:01,610
source of that that two-dimensional

1685
01:36:06,770 --> 01:36:04,560
substrate reality and and bring back in

1686
01:36:12,379 --> 01:36:06,780
its in a quote coded way that we can

1687
01:36:14,300 --> 01:36:12,389
sort of absorb it well I think I can't

1688
01:36:17,290 --> 01:36:14,310
tell you that I know Ram Dass is

1689
01:36:21,260 --> 01:36:17,300
thinking process but he brought that out

1690
01:36:24,820 --> 01:36:21,270
after he had spent time with his

1691
01:36:29,540 --> 01:36:24,830
spiritual teacher neem Karoli Baba and

1692
01:36:32,570 --> 01:36:29,550
he had begun meditating and you know

1693
01:36:35,810 --> 01:36:32,580
spent a lot of time with his with his

1694
01:36:38,089 --> 01:36:35,820
teacher before he wrote that book and I

1695
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:38,099
think what he was trying to do my my

1696
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:42,210
feeling always has been that he was

1697
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:45,810
trying to get Westerners out of their

1698
01:36:54,140 --> 01:36:49,290
rational mind to understand something

1699
01:37:00,260 --> 01:36:54,150
that only can be experienced so he had

1700
01:37:02,240 --> 01:37:00,270
to take you on a little journey that was

1701
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:02,250
unlike any journey you'd ever been on

1702
01:37:06,260 --> 01:37:05,130
before and I'd say it worked for me at

1703
01:37:08,990 --> 01:37:06,270
least yeah and it worked

1704
01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:09,000
yeah I was fascinated by it and moved by

1705
01:37:16,100 --> 01:37:12,449
it and it was really an important

1706
01:37:17,870 --> 01:37:16,110
important book for me yeah you know I'm

1707
01:37:20,930 --> 01:37:17,880
glad you said that what what are some of

1708
01:37:24,589 --> 01:37:20,940
the most important works that you've

1709
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:24,599
read or or figures or authors that have

1710
01:37:30,890 --> 01:37:27,810
sort of guided you down this path to

1711
01:37:35,740 --> 01:37:30,900
write this book as it were well the main

1712
01:37:40,250 --> 01:37:35,750
book that has guided me is Yogananda's

1713
01:37:45,290 --> 01:37:40,260
autobiography of a yogi' it's been out

1714
01:37:47,899 --> 01:37:45,300
since 1946 it's been read by millions of

1715
01:37:49,729 --> 01:37:47,909
people there are something like 10

1716
01:37:54,020 --> 01:37:49,739
million copies have been printed since

1717
01:38:00,189 --> 01:37:54,030
it was first published it was the first

1718
01:38:04,839 --> 01:38:00,199
book written in first person by a

1719
01:38:09,550 --> 01:38:04,849
realized spiritual master and there are

1720
01:38:11,810 --> 01:38:09,560
many books that are records of what

1721
01:38:13,149 --> 01:38:11,820
great spiritual teachers are saying

1722
01:38:16,910 --> 01:38:13,159
mm-hmm

1723
01:38:21,530 --> 01:38:16,920
but has it just a story of their life

1724
01:38:26,419 --> 01:38:21,540
and how they experience God and found

1725
01:38:29,810 --> 01:38:26,429
God and understand God it was it is

1726
01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:29,820
unique because it's in the Western

1727
01:38:37,359 --> 01:38:32,880
vernacular it's not a book where he

1728
01:38:39,709 --> 01:38:37,369
brings in lots and lots of Eastern

1729
01:38:43,629 --> 01:38:39,719
concepts that are difficult for us to

1730
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:43,639
understand he explained everything to

1731
01:38:51,410 --> 01:38:46,530
Westerners and I think what continues to

1732
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:51,420
impress me is how much of a scientific

1733
01:38:59,510 --> 01:38:56,330
foundation it has so that's been a huge

1734
01:39:03,890 --> 01:38:59,520
wellspring for me I can't tell you any

1735
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:03,900
other book that's had more impact on me

1736
01:39:12,020 --> 01:39:08,880
I loved books yeah like the Dow physics

1737
01:39:15,229 --> 01:39:12,030
the dancing wooly masters I always had a

1738
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:15,239
very strong scientific background I

1739
01:39:23,169 --> 01:39:18,770
think before I discovered meditation

1740
01:39:27,649 --> 01:39:23,179
which pulled me away from a strictly

1741
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:27,659
scientific bent I would have ended up as

1742
01:39:33,660 --> 01:39:32,250
a microbiologist or physicist I was very

1743
01:39:35,790 --> 01:39:33,670
much going down that path

1744
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:35,800
but it was books like the autobiography

1745
01:39:42,959 --> 01:39:39,760
of a yogi' and be here now and the Dalit

1746
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:42,969
physics that really you know moved me

1747
01:39:49,220 --> 01:39:45,010
away from that there's there's there's

1748
01:39:53,580 --> 01:39:49,230
more here there's a lot more here plus

1749
01:39:57,479 --> 01:39:53,590
at the time I was in college many of us

1750
01:40:01,500 --> 01:39:57,489
were imbibing hallucinogenic substances

1751
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:01,510
and I had a few very profound

1752
01:40:10,790 --> 01:40:05,250
experiences that I could not explain

1753
01:40:14,939 --> 01:40:10,800
rationally or with any at that time

1754
01:40:16,430 --> 01:40:14,949
scientific explanation and that that in

1755
01:40:19,979 --> 01:40:16,440
combination with these books

1756
01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:19,989
really sent me on you know a life

1757
01:40:29,189 --> 01:40:23,410
journey to figure out how do I have that

1758
01:40:32,550 --> 01:40:29,199
experience better and continuously right

1759
01:40:37,110 --> 01:40:32,560
right yeah I think I think many people

1760
01:40:39,540 --> 01:40:37,120
have come out the same with the same

1761
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:39,550
opinion as yourself I'm including Ram

1762
01:40:46,380 --> 01:40:43,890
Dass and um but I but I do wonder

1763
01:40:50,209 --> 01:40:46,390
because we are talking about you know

1764
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:50,219
that the merging of science and you know

1765
01:40:55,290 --> 01:40:53,530
spirituality and in a sense you know

1766
01:40:58,950 --> 01:40:55,300
like look Timothy Leary would look what

1767
01:41:01,140 --> 01:40:58,960
he was doing is and he really was he has

1768
01:41:03,689 --> 01:41:01,150
kind of a bad rap I think he was trying

1769
01:41:06,180 --> 01:41:03,699
to stick to the whole set and setting

1770
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:06,190
and and being responsible with the use

1771
01:41:13,669 --> 01:41:09,760
of LSD and I think originally especially

1772
01:41:17,610 --> 01:41:13,679
he was using it as a scientific tool to

1773
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:17,620
expand our consciousness you know is

1774
01:41:24,300 --> 01:41:19,690
there do you see a viable future where

1775
01:41:29,820 --> 01:41:24,310
human beings can use substances or I

1776
01:41:34,940 --> 01:41:29,830
don't know some other technology to help

1777
01:41:42,330 --> 01:41:39,660
well responsibly and yeah I can only

1778
01:41:46,530 --> 01:41:42,340
really speak to my own experience and

1779
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:46,540
what I have found was that it wasn't

1780
01:41:53,790 --> 01:41:50,050
consistent I mean that may have been in

1781
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:53,800
part because the the source of supply

1782
01:42:01,080 --> 01:41:56,530
for me was probably inconsistent but I

1783
01:42:05,670 --> 01:42:01,090
did find that not all hallucinogenic

1784
01:42:10,350 --> 01:42:05,680
experiences were uplifting not all of

1785
01:42:15,870 --> 01:42:10,360
them were satisfying some of them were

1786
01:42:18,060 --> 01:42:15,880
unpleasant yeah yeah and it convinced me

1787
01:42:22,950 --> 01:42:18,070
that while there was a reality there

1788
01:42:25,530 --> 01:42:22,960
that the psilocybin or whatever I

1789
01:42:29,130 --> 01:42:25,540
happened to be taking put me in touch

1790
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:29,140
with that reality was separate from the

1791
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:32,170
psilocybin that the the drug was just a

1792
01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:35,290
means to make that connection but it was

1793
01:42:41,850 --> 01:42:38,890
always temporary well and do you think

1794
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:41,860
that they they are you know as dangerous

1795
01:42:49,170 --> 01:42:46,690
or evil you know descriptive words that

1796
01:42:53,210 --> 01:42:49,180
others might use evil but you know like

1797
01:42:55,440 --> 01:42:53,220
cocaine or heroin or meth it you know

1798
01:42:58,740 --> 01:42:55,450
crack cocaine or you know all these

1799
01:43:00,180 --> 01:42:58,750
things you know are they there look

1800
01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:00,190
there tend to be lumped in the same

1801
01:43:10,830 --> 01:43:07,450
category of detrimental effects sight do

1802
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:10,840
they deserve that yeah it's a very

1803
01:43:16,470 --> 01:43:13,810
interesting question and I personally

1804
01:43:19,260 --> 01:43:16,480
I'm very grateful for having had the

1805
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:19,270
experience but I would never recommend

1806
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:26,650
it to someone I had friends who came out

1807
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:30,610
of the 60s with not as much as they

1808
01:43:38,970 --> 01:43:33,850
entered the 60s with that it really was

1809
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:38,980
detrimental to them there is a for an

1810
01:43:44,540 --> 01:43:42,370
addictive personality they are as

1811
01:43:48,109 --> 01:43:44,550
addictive as any other drug because

1812
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:48,119
is there so entrancing there so

1813
01:43:56,359 --> 01:43:52,770
energizing they're so able to take your

1814
01:43:58,310 --> 01:43:56,369
out of yourself and your your thoughts

1815
01:43:59,450 --> 01:43:58,320
of the day and your worries of the week

1816
01:44:00,890 --> 01:43:59,460
mm-hmm

1817
01:44:03,950 --> 01:44:00,900
well it's interesting you say that

1818
01:44:07,069 --> 01:44:03,960
because so many make the argument that

1819
01:44:10,669 --> 01:44:07,079
it actually is good for fighting

1820
01:44:13,970 --> 01:44:10,679
addiction or can be used to counter

1821
01:44:16,879 --> 01:44:13,980
addiction yeah that's a little bit like

1822
01:44:19,669 --> 01:44:16,889
you know removing one thorn by using

1823
01:44:22,640 --> 01:44:19,679
another thorn to do it I think under

1824
01:44:25,180 --> 01:44:22,650
proper supervision with someone who

1825
01:44:28,970 --> 01:44:25,190
really really knows what they're doing I

1826
01:44:32,330 --> 01:44:28,980
think it's probably true and you know

1827
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:32,340
carefully conclude controlled doses the

1828
01:44:37,189 --> 01:44:35,010
ability to be you know brought down from

1829
01:44:39,530 --> 01:44:37,199
that experience quickly if it starts to

1830
01:44:42,799 --> 01:44:39,540
go bad I think yeah under supervision

1831
01:44:47,299 --> 01:44:42,809
know that yeah I think all that is true

1832
01:44:51,260 --> 01:44:47,309
I think they're just easier ways and the

1833
01:44:52,669 --> 01:44:51,270
easiest way I know is meditation right

1834
01:44:54,649 --> 01:44:52,679
well you know I mean Terence Mckenna

1835
01:44:57,859 --> 01:44:54,659
which I'm sure you're familiar with you

1836
01:45:00,530 --> 01:44:57,869
know he he always made the the sort of

1837
01:45:04,220 --> 01:45:00,540
snide remark argument that it's like you

1838
01:45:06,530 --> 01:45:04,230
know it's well yeah it's great you can

1839
01:45:08,359 --> 01:45:06,540
you can get in touch with with God

1840
01:45:11,270 --> 01:45:08,369
through meditation but who has time for

1841
01:45:12,950 --> 01:45:11,280
it you know it's like in this day and

1842
01:45:14,569 --> 01:45:12,960
age it's it seems like well you know

1843
01:45:16,970 --> 01:45:14,579
what if I can if I can just do this

1844
01:45:19,399 --> 01:45:16,980
other thing you know in a couple of

1845
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:19,409
hours or in five minutes I can I can you

1846
01:45:25,580 --> 01:45:22,170
know touch the divine and and learn

1847
01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:25,590
something about myself and you know I I

1848
01:45:31,580 --> 01:45:28,290
know for myself I work on putting that

1849
01:45:33,890 --> 01:45:31,590
time aside to meditate and it's usually

1850
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:33,900
at the end of the day when I'm tired and

1851
01:45:38,540 --> 01:45:36,449
and it's harder to convince myself okay

1852
01:45:39,740 --> 01:45:38,550
come on man just just 10 minutes that's

1853
01:45:42,859 --> 01:45:39,750
all you need just 10 minutes put it

1854
01:45:45,939 --> 01:45:42,869
aside you can do it you know so if it

1855
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:45,949
feels like and this isn't against you I

1856
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:48,650
feel like you know if it was so easy

1857
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:51,690
more people would do meditation so I

1858
01:45:57,580 --> 01:45:54,530
think that the challenge is how to

1859
01:45:59,830 --> 01:45:57,590
how to convince people that the time

1860
01:46:02,399 --> 01:45:59,840
invested in meditation is well worth the

1861
01:46:06,010 --> 01:46:02,409
rewards that you were you reap from it

1862
01:46:09,939 --> 01:46:06,020
yeah well it's it's like all things and

1863
01:46:15,069 --> 01:46:09,949
and wrapped up securely in human nature

1864
01:46:17,770 --> 01:46:15,079
I mean you know I know that eating right

1865
01:46:20,379 --> 01:46:17,780
is gonna make me healthier there's a

1866
01:46:22,629 --> 01:46:20,389
little work involved you and I both know

1867
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:22,639
that exercise is gonna make us a little

1868
01:46:28,149 --> 01:46:26,480
healthier but you have to work at it

1869
01:46:34,060 --> 01:46:28,159
meditation is no different

1870
01:46:36,910 --> 01:46:34,070
it's not a an easy slide into results

1871
01:46:43,839 --> 01:46:36,920
you do have to apply some will and

1872
01:46:46,750 --> 01:46:43,849
discipline but I'm completely sold on it

1873
01:46:51,459 --> 01:46:46,760
because now the benefits that I receive

1874
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:51,469
from it just so outweigh the effort that

1875
01:46:55,839 --> 01:46:53,090
I have to put out the discipline I have

1876
01:46:59,589 --> 01:46:55,849
to exert the time I have to take to do

1877
01:47:01,299 --> 01:46:59,599
it so I just hope what people hear when

1878
01:47:05,109 --> 01:47:01,309
when they hear me talk is not that they

1879
01:47:06,729 --> 01:47:05,119
should meditate but that wow maybe

1880
01:47:10,390 --> 01:47:06,739
there's something I should experience

1881
01:47:13,870 --> 01:47:10,400
here and give it a go if they're not

1882
01:47:18,970 --> 01:47:13,880
already meditating it is quite simply

1883
01:47:24,490 --> 01:47:18,980
the greatest source of happiness and

1884
01:47:29,319 --> 01:47:24,500
peace of mind that I know and that I

1885
01:47:33,100 --> 01:47:29,329
know I'm not tapping it to its fullest

1886
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:33,110
yet well you know we have about five

1887
01:47:39,010 --> 01:47:35,570
minutes left is there anything that you

1888
01:47:41,790 --> 01:47:39,020
feel you really wanted to express and

1889
01:47:47,620 --> 01:47:41,800
share that we haven't covered yet

1890
01:47:52,990 --> 01:47:47,630
well my overarching purpose in writing

1891
01:47:57,609 --> 01:47:53,000
the book is to for people who already

1892
01:48:01,740 --> 01:47:57,619
have a belief in things spiritual and

1893
01:48:04,270 --> 01:48:01,750
paranormal to give them maybe a more

1894
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:04,280
firm foundation for it

1895
01:48:08,230 --> 01:48:07,610
but I'm especially hoping that people

1896
01:48:11,890 --> 01:48:08,240
who

1897
01:48:14,790 --> 01:48:11,900
or have an interest in spiritual

1898
01:48:19,230 --> 01:48:14,800
teachings or spirituality or meditation

1899
01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:19,240
but shy away from it because they think

1900
01:48:25,900 --> 01:48:23,530
science has ruled out any validity to it

1901
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:25,910
it's really for those people I've

1902
01:48:34,500 --> 01:48:29,090
written this book because what I have

1903
01:48:36,640 --> 01:48:34,510
found is there is nothing in any of the

1904
01:48:40,480 --> 01:48:36,650
genuine spiritual teachings the

1905
01:48:43,090 --> 01:48:40,490
teachings that lie at the heart of all

1906
01:48:47,500 --> 01:48:43,100
religions all spiritual paths all

1907
01:48:49,570 --> 01:48:47,510
traditions that has been experienced

1908
01:48:52,330 --> 01:48:49,580
directly by and testified to by the

1909
01:48:57,550 --> 01:48:52,340
saints and sages there's nothing that

1910
01:48:59,410 --> 01:48:57,560
they say that isn't supported by aspects

1911
01:49:02,380 --> 01:48:59,420
of science it's not supported by

1912
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:02,390
scientific materialism it's not

1913
01:49:08,110 --> 01:49:03,890
supported by the people who are

1914
01:49:11,350 --> 01:49:08,120
absolutely convinced that this material

1915
01:49:13,270 --> 01:49:11,360
world is all there is but if you can set

1916
01:49:15,100 --> 01:49:13,280
them aside if you can just sort of

1917
01:49:17,980 --> 01:49:15,110
mentally say okay let me let me go

1918
01:49:19,980 --> 01:49:17,990
explore the guys who aren't scientific

1919
01:49:22,930 --> 01:49:19,990
materialists they're women who are

1920
01:49:27,060 --> 01:49:22,940
scientific materialists and see what

1921
01:49:30,100 --> 01:49:27,070
they're saying you'll find there the

1922
01:49:32,500 --> 01:49:30,110
support for what the saints and sages

1923
01:49:35,260 --> 01:49:32,510
are saying and that there really is no

1924
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:35,270
line between no conflict between them

1925
01:49:42,780 --> 01:49:39,890
there is a strong foundational support

1926
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:42,790
for both of them in both disciplines

1927
01:49:48,700 --> 01:49:45,760
well you know everyone has their own

1928
01:49:51,220 --> 01:49:48,710
explanation for what would be the

1929
01:49:53,560 --> 01:49:51,230
solution for all the problems of mankind

1930
01:49:55,870 --> 01:49:53,570
you know how do we get at close to that

1931
01:49:59,050 --> 01:49:55,880
you that utopias possible in science has

1932
01:50:01,060 --> 01:49:59,060
there's religions have there's and you

1933
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:01,070
know some people might say you know as

1934
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:02,930
soon as we have free energy as soon as

1935
01:50:05,170 --> 01:50:04,610
energy is free it's not going to cost

1936
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:05,180
anything

1937
01:50:10,810 --> 01:50:07,970
then that's gonna be the major step

1938
01:50:13,630 --> 01:50:10,820
towards you know a unified society and

1939
01:50:17,590 --> 01:50:13,640
you know getting rid of you know lack of

1940
01:50:19,830 --> 01:50:17,600
food and inability to you know have

1941
01:50:21,420 --> 01:50:19,840
enough for all people

1942
01:50:22,860 --> 01:50:21,430
I don't buy it I think that would be

1943
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:22,870
very very helpful I don't buy that

1944
01:50:28,740 --> 01:50:26,650
that's the one off solution what about

1945
01:50:30,150 --> 01:50:28,750
you do you think how do you think we get

1946
01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:30,160
there you've got two minutes left if you

1947
01:50:36,900 --> 01:50:34,090
can fit that in there well I happen to

1948
01:50:42,870 --> 01:50:36,910
be involved with a kind of a movement

1949
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:42,880
now that is quite simply putting forward

1950
01:50:48,030 --> 01:50:45,970
the notion everybody that you have to be

1951
01:50:53,130 --> 01:50:48,040
the change you want to see in the world

1952
01:50:56,100 --> 01:50:53,140
that it starts with you and if you don't

1953
01:50:58,950 --> 01:50:56,110
change your consciousness if you are not

1954
01:51:02,370 --> 01:50:58,960
more harmonious if you're not more

1955
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:02,380
thoughtful towards other people you

1956
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:05,890
don't create any ripples in the pond of

1957
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:08,170
consciousness that affect other people

1958
01:51:17,850 --> 01:51:12,570
you just stay in the same level of

1959
01:51:19,500 --> 01:51:17,860
problem thinking so if that world is

1960
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:19,510
really going to make a significant

1961
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:22,770
change it's going to come from

1962
01:51:28,380 --> 01:51:25,690
individuals changing themselves first

1963
01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:28,390
and then with that change of

1964
01:51:34,950 --> 01:51:30,930
consciousness doing things differently

1965
01:51:37,110 --> 01:51:34,960
it may be that what they're inspired to

1966
01:51:41,190 --> 01:51:37,120
do is to go find free energy which would

1967
01:51:42,810 --> 01:51:41,200
be great but if we have the same state

1968
01:51:45,360 --> 01:51:42,820
of consciousness we have now throughout

1969
01:51:49,290 --> 01:51:45,370
the world which is pretty tense free

1970
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:49,300
energy could just be a disaster right it

1971
01:51:55,890 --> 01:51:53,890
could be in the wrong hands and cause

1972
01:52:02,970 --> 01:51:55,900
more problems than it solves

1973
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:02,980
so yeah that's a sign this no good oh I

1974
01:52:09,690 --> 01:52:05,050
was just gonna say much of science is

1975
01:52:11,550 --> 01:52:09,700
the same it's what we do with it yeah so

1976
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:11,560
be the change you want to be in the

1977
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:15,010
world and my number one advice for

1978
01:52:22,500 --> 01:52:18,130
people who believe that and want to do

1979
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:22,510
that is meditate because that really

1980
01:52:28,440 --> 01:52:25,690
changes you from the inside out I know

1981
01:52:31,260 --> 01:52:28,450
that I can I can attest to that in my

1982
01:52:32,990 --> 01:52:31,270
small own small way so just where do

1983
01:52:34,130 --> 01:52:33,000
where do we get the book

1984
01:52:36,440 --> 01:52:34,140
and where do you want people to go to

1985
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:36,450
you know take it in touch with you to

1986
01:52:43,100 --> 01:52:40,890
follow you social media etc the book is

1987
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:43,110
available through the usual online

1988
01:52:49,730 --> 01:52:47,130
outlets Barnes & Noble Amazon you can

1989
01:52:52,490 --> 01:52:49,740
get it from the publisher which is new

1990
01:52:54,950 --> 01:52:52,500
page books if you want to know more

1991
01:52:56,720 --> 01:52:54,960
about me and some of the blog's that I'm

1992
01:53:00,760 --> 01:52:56,730
working on you can go to my website

1993
01:53:05,770 --> 01:53:00,770
which is physics and god

1994
01:53:09,020 --> 01:53:05,780
calm and I have blogs coming out

1995
01:53:11,390 --> 01:53:09,030
regularly and there is more information

1996
01:53:14,540 --> 01:53:11,400
about the book there and links to where

1997
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:14,550
you can get it alright great author of

1998
01:53:18,830 --> 01:53:17,370
the physics of God Joseph Selby thank

1999
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:18,840
you so much for coming onto paranormal

2000
01:53:25,730 --> 01:53:22,530
now my pleasure yeah it's actually my

2001
01:53:26,990 --> 01:53:25,740
pleasure indeed I really hope that um we

2002
01:53:28,370 --> 01:53:27,000
can have you back on the program in the

2003
01:53:30,470 --> 01:53:28,380
future are you planning on any other

2004
01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:30,480
works at all in the in the foreseeable

2005
01:53:40,040 --> 01:53:36,330
future this one took me four years to

2006
01:53:43,670 --> 01:53:40,050
research and write I have another idea

2007
01:53:46,340 --> 01:53:43,680
that could take equally long is the

2008
01:53:49,940 --> 01:53:46,350
psychology of God okay

2009
01:53:53,420 --> 01:53:49,950
the already most of this book focuses on

2010
01:53:55,580 --> 01:53:53,430
physics and the kind of hard sciences

2011
01:53:57,620 --> 01:53:55,590
where the soft sciences also have their

2012
01:54:00,290 --> 01:53:57,630
theories that are both material and

2013
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:00,300
non-material and I'd love to be able to

2014
01:54:09,100 --> 01:54:03,210
give people a an avenue a path to seeing

2015
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:09,110
how psychology also supports a an inner

2016
01:54:15,320 --> 01:54:13,050
path to connecting an inner path to

2017
01:54:16,580 --> 01:54:15,330
transcendence okay well then yeah let's

2018
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:16,590
stay in touch if see if we can come up

2019
01:54:20,210 --> 01:54:18,330
with an excuse to have you back on again

2020
01:54:23,060 --> 01:54:20,220
because I have a lot of questions I was

2021
01:54:24,530 --> 01:54:23,070
unable to get to you again thank you for

2022
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:24,540
coming on two paranormal now this is

2023
01:54:28,820 --> 01:54:26,730
Ellen B Smith on the inception radio

2024
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:28,830
network I'd like to thank Joe champion

2025
01:54:33,950 --> 01:54:31,410
MJ Lucas and Bob tarmac and also Ken

2026
01:54:36,380 --> 01:54:33,960
cherry from epic voyages radio for

2027
01:54:38,900 --> 01:54:36,390
helping make this podcast

2028
01:54:40,450 --> 01:54:38,910
and to all of you out there live in the